Lack of appitite/water.

[Jace]

Lately Bud has been acting a little strange. Heused to finish off whole bundles of parsley in one sitting. Or while Iwas at work i'd leave a bundle for him and a ton of tim hay. normallythe parsley is gone and some of the hay is gone but for the past 2 daysthis hasn't been the case. I left one in there while working yesterdayand when I got home it was still there. I spent some time with him andhe was acting normal. Really happy when I was there, playing with memoreso than usual and sometime durning the night he downed the bundle.He really never has been big on water (he eats a LOT of freshveggies... well did...) so i'm not sure if that might have something todo with the water not going as fast since he might not be used to it.I'm just getting home from work as we speak b/c the bundle of parsleywas still there when I got home and i'm really starting to worry. Hemunched on a few stands of tim hay already but thats about it that Iknow of. I'm ganna keep hanging out with him and see if he'll eat...

I guess typing this all out and getting my thoughts rationalized it kinda seems he might be lonely =

any ideas?

edit - oh no... after reading all this I was looking at the PINs andsaw the GI stasis thing and went to examine his poo. The freshest Ifound was all kind of like... um....... i don't know how to say it in apolite term but anal beeds. something is connecting them all...

i dug into it to find out what I can tell. there was a strand of tim hay. some hairs (dark... not his white fur... carpet?)

how long does this take normally to effect them? its almost 10pm and no vet is open. I'm really scared.

 

[Haley]

Hmmm...is he getting pellets in addition to the hay and veggies?

Typically, a rabbit should get about 1/4-1/2 cup of pellets a day,depending on size. Timothy pellets are the best if he's fullgrown (I cant remember his age). I give about a cup of greens andunlimited hay.

You're right that if he is eating a lot of greens, this will usuallymean less water in my experience. Does he have a bottle or abowl? I have one bun who wont drink from a bottle, so I have bothavailable.

Just some ideas, but, as you said, he may just be a bitlonely. Do you work often and is anyone home when you'regone? It might be good to consider maybe getting him afriend, if its something you can afford right now.

Just some random thoughts....

-Haley

 

[Jace]

He uses a bottle in his cage which is alwaysopen since that room is completely his. he also has a bowl in eachroom. (his and mine)

 

[Jace]

another update, sorry i'm just really really worried at this point, but good news I think.

--

I remember where he pooped when I was around yesterday and tonight so Iwas able to examine them both and see how its been progressing thepassed few days. The ones connected are from 10-30 minutes ago (stillwarm and whatnot) and the ones from last night are completely normalcompared to the ones from I have no idea how long ago (no more than 6days) Also while hanging out with him, he eats every strand of hay Ihand him. I don't know if this is good or not. If there is blockage,dry hay would more than likely increase the problem correct? Onlyproblem is he turns his nose to anything wet and green.

hes eating a few pieces of parsley as we speak. Hes deff. going to thevet though. Any tips on how to get more fluids in his system?

 

[Haley]

Jace wrote:

I remember where he pooped when I was around yesterday and tonight so Iwas able to examine them both and see how its been progressing thepassed few days. The ones connected are from 10-30 minutes ago (stillwarm and whatnot) and the ones from last night are completely normalcompared to the ones from I have no idea how long ago (no more than 6days) Also while hanging out with him, he eats every strand of hay Ihand him. I don't know if this is good or not. If there is blockage,dry hay would more than likely increase the problem correct? Hes deff.going to the vet though. Any tips on how to get more fluids in hissystem?

I missed something, are the poops dry and connected? If so, itsprobably just hair and not much to worry about. Hay will help ifthere's blockage. Basically, if he's eating hay and pellets, your fine.Some people dont even give fresh greens.

If you're worried about fluids, you can try syringing some water intohis mouth (a baby syringe for giving meds works fine). Some other ideasare to put a bit of vanilla in his water, get some pedialyte or carrotjuice or something.

As long as he's getting food down and water, he should befine. Did you say if he has pellets? Those can always bemashed up and mixed with water to syringe some food in.

 

[Jace]

No. He was pretty fat when I got him so I weenedhim off the pellets. Hes eating a strand or 2 of parsley that I givehim every now and then but hey may not even be hungry. So hes gettingfood and some liquids down and is still pooping. The poop was actuallya little moist but that is sometimes normal for Bud right after hepoops. (I found out by accident the first time, don't ask lol)

 

[Haley]

I would put the pellets back in the diet, justlimit them. I recommend a timothy-based pellet like TimothyComplete or Oxbow. He should definitely have pellets, just limit it.Heres a great link for diet guidance. If he's not getting allthe right nutrients, it can lead to GI problems etc.

Here ya go: http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/diet.html


Hope this helps!

-Haley

 

[Maureen Las]

Last year I had a problem with abondedpair who groomed each other constantly and began to continuously passpoops that looked like "string of pearls" or rosary beads". I becamevery concerned as I was giving them all the right foods ,veggies timhay etc. I began to brush each rabbit myself in hopes that maybe theywould ingest less of each others hair. Still I got these same twistedup poops ..one time I even took one apart to try to figure out what itwas. One day I was just sitting there watching them when I noticedBabette eating something out of her litterbox. To make a long storyshort it turns out that both of these buns were eating Carefresh litter(apparently they were bored). I changed litter and the problem ended.

 

[Pipp]

If he's an indoor bunny, the pellets will givehim Vitamin D and other things he normally would get from thesun. (Are you sure he's a he? I rememberyou mentioning his 'chin', which maybe a dewlap that's usually morepronounced in the girls). Without pellets, theycaneat their weight in vegetables everyday, which can be aLOT of veggies. Are you giving him a lot of different kinds?

The most important thing is still the hay, anddifferentvarieties of veggies will help with the nutrients, but he's goingtoneeda littlehandful of pellets.

If his poops are strung together, keep an eye on him, he mayhavea lot ofhair andcrud (carpet?:shock to move through is system, and while the hay again is the bestthing for that as well ('nature's scrubbrush'),hydrationand green plant fiber helps as well, as doesexercise.

Is his pee lookingpretty normal? Most importantly,keep an eye on those poops.You don't want to seethemget small and shrivelled, or stop altogether.



sas et al

 

[Jace]

I can't really inspect the pee, its always inthe litter box. No i'm not sure he is a he, i'll get a picture of thatchin of his though. (holy crap he did the funniest thing... he was onthe window sill with the blinds down and he tried to put his 2 frontpaws on the blinds from the inside and just went forward to the floor(6 inches) and was so ****ed at the blinds) I'll try and find someTimothy based feed. I mix and match what kind of veggies he gets. Igive him chives, mustard greens, celery, tim hay of course and parsleyseemed to be his favorite. So far i've looked at Wal-mart and Petco fortimothy based pellets but no luck, closest was something that was 30%alfalfa but i hear alfalfa isn't that great of a hay anyway. Also aboutthe litter, I heard Yesterday's News mentioned a lot on here so i'vebeen using the Softer Texture formula for him, is that going to be okor what should I use? I know he eats stuff outa the litter box but Ican never get close enough to really tell if hes eating his poo or thelitter.

Here are the pictures, you kinda have to look really close to see thatchin thing in the picture. It seems it has shurnk a little bit and isrough to get a good shot of lol. These were taken maybe 3 hours aftermy initial post. So yes, hes eating hay much morenow.

 

[Pipp]

There's nothing wrong with alfalfa pellets for abunny that eats Timothy Hay and veggies, normally I'd say just makesure the protein count is less than 16% (%14 is good, 12% works too),but Bud actually really looks too thin in thesepics.You also don't know how old he is.If he's only six months old or so, he still needs the protein andcalcium regardless.

I'd get him on pellets asap and start increasing his veggies, dependingon how much he's on now, how active he is and how old he is.He should have 2 cups worth or so (at least) every day, preferable atleast three different kinds at once.

I don't think chives are good for them, I thought they were on the 'donot feed' list but I couldwrong. Celeryisokay but not all that nutritious. (And it reallycan get caught in their teeth so it should be cut up pretty small).

Romaine or green leaf lettuce makes a good staple, asdoescarrots (just not tons of it)and carrot tops (which you canget free frommarkets that throw them out anyway -- ditto withbeet greens -- although some people eat those so not as easy to comeby).

Hopefully his appetite will pick up soon. It's not common for it to drop off forno reason.

You may also want to pick up some Nutri-Cal from the pet store (orvet). It's a supplement made for cats and dogs but it worksfor rabbits. It has all sorts of nutrients, in particular Bvitamins, that will help with his appetite. You just smoosh alittle on his paw and he'll lick it off.

Hope he pops right back to normal.



sas et al

 

[naturestee]

:yeahthat

He does look pretty thin.I also recommend a highfiber 16% protein pellet and adding it ASAP. Just start witha tablespoon at a time and work your way up.Alfalfapelletsare a good basis for a diet, especially since you haveno idea how old he is. Some, not all rabbits, get cecalproblems from that when they're adults and need timothypellets. Others need higher fiber amounts which can be hardto find in alfalfa pellets. But growing buns need the extraprotein and calcium and many adults do just fine with it.

Don't buy any pellets from Walmart. They don't have anythingworth buying. I think Petco carries Kaytee andMartins. Martinsmakes decent stuff.Kaytee has good timothy pellets but I don't like their alfalfa pelletsmuch. Or you could go to a feed/farm store and pick up somepellets there, just make sure they're 16% (or less) protein and atleast 18% fiber. They're usually higher quality (and lessexpensive) than pet store brand alfalfa pellets. Some of the15% protein "maintenance" pellets look good. Imightfeed them if I didn't have protein-sensitive rabbits.

As for veggies, chives are definately out. They're in theonion family and many animals have problems with those. Checkout the safe veggie lists in Bunny 101 for more ideas. Myrabbits eat a lot of leaf lettuce, endive, escarole, parsley, cilantro,and a mix of others such as alfalfa sprouts, bok choy, carrot greens,radish leaves, collards, etc.

 

[naturestee]

I just saw your question on litter.I've tried a couple different things and what I like best is woodpellet litter from feed stores. It's the most absorbent, bestodor-killing stuff I've ever found and it's super cheap.There are brands in pet stores too but they're moreexpensive. Feline Pine is one.

Yesterday's News and Carefresh are decent but pricey. If hetakes more than the occasional nibble, switch to somethingdifferent. Some rabbits really like to eat that stuff and itcan cause a blockage.

 

[Jace]

He doesn't seem to really go crazy over eatinglitter. Just when he is occasionally in there doing business he seemsto take one or 2. Yeah I put the Chives up last night anyway b/c theydidn't seem very leafy/moist and I wanted him to eat something withmore water and tried mustard greens.

I'll have to somewhat disagree that wal-mart has nothing of value forrabbits. They have the same exact timothy hay that Petco offers but $4less so I just bulk up on hay there. The pellets they have (Hartz Ibeleive) were really "good" nutrition wise compared to the nutrientsfacts that the petco care sheet had. But i'm going to swing by and findsome alfalfa based pellets on my lunch break. Bud at another bundle ofparsley durning the night and seems to have taking some more poops thatare normal size, couple still stuck together from what I can tell.

 

[Jace]

Also while we're at it. In a desperation to gethim to stop eating carpet i'm considering sprinkling hay all over the 2rooms. No one comes back here really besdies close friends and I cancompletely live with it if it'll make him stop eating the carpet. I wasmore so hoping, is there something I can spray on the carpet that won'thurt him but taste like crap? I heard vinagar I believe but I want todouble check everything at this point lol.

Thanks a lot guys!

 

[Haley]

Youre right about the hay at Walmart. I buyKaytee Timothy hay there. I think Naturestee was referring to thepellets. Every type Ive seen there is crap They also have fun toysin the baby section sometimes, and those doggie training pads workgreat for lining the cage (as long as your bun doesnt eat it) alongwith the random natural straw/grass placemats, baskets etc. I mustadmit, Im a walmart junkie when it comes to saving a few bucks!

As far as the carpet, does he have any grass/straw mats? Putting thosearound encourages him to chew on them. Ive heard of people who buythose and then each time they see their bun working on the carpet, theysay "no" and put the mat there instead. Also, putting aroundcardboard boxes (like play tunnels) and natural wicker/straw basketshelp to. Anything to distracthim from that tempting carpet!

Another idea is to limit his play area for a while. You could build anNIC pen and line the floor with something non-carpet. I used to havetrouble with my buns and carpet (only under my bed) so I bought some ofthat plastic runner and lined the entire area under the bed. No morechewing!

Just some ideas...and you know, its great that you're double checkingall your info. Thats what makes a good bunny parent There are somany myths and misconceptions out there about rabbit care!

EDIT: couldnt remember if he is neutered, this usually helps cut down on that troublesome behavior too!

 

[Jace]

Petco says they neuter/spay all their rabbitsbefore sale so he should be. I never can really get a feel, hes not bigon physical contact unless its under his terms.

As far as the carpet, does he have any grass/straw mats?Putting those around encourages him to chew on them. Ive heard ofpeople who buy those and then each time they see their bun working onthe carpet, they say "no" and put the mat there instead.Also, putting around cardboard boxes (like play tunnels) and naturalwicker/straw baskets help to. Anything to distracthim fromthat tempting carpet!

Thats a great idea! Where would you get something like thatthough? I'm assuming its not those really fake grass matts that peopleuse at doorways though. So where would I go about getting thosehay/straw mats? Or could someone take a picture of theirs so I kindaknow what to look for?

 

[Haley]

I would have him taken to the vet to be sexedjust to be sure. I dont trust Petco, thats where I got myMax. They told me he was a girl, which obviously he was not, and he wasnot altered. I would double check, just in case.

The mats, you can get pretty much anywhere.Petco and Petsmartsometimes sell the smaller grass mats, but theyre overpriced.Ive ordered some online from here:http://www.catsandrabbitsandmore.com/toys___mats

Also, a lot of us have been able to find a cheap substitute at placeslike Pier One and Bed Bath and Beyond. Just make sure its untreatednatural straw or seaweed. I bought a bunch of placemats at Bed Bath& Beyond that work great! Also, I bought a huge one thatsactually, like you said, a doormat! Its like10 bucks and itshuge compared to the ones online. You can buy big baskets and such atWalmart in the crafts section. You just have to be sure its not treatedand that theres no strings etc in it.

I'lltake a few pics and post them in a sec!

 

[naturestee]

What were the recommendations on the Petco caresheet? I'm a bit concerned. I've looked at theHartz food and it all seemed very inappropriate. If I'mremembering it correctly, one of the types had only 12%fiber. That's low enough to directly cause GI stasisaccording to some vet-authored articles I've seen.:?

Instead of the Petco care sheet (never trust a pet store, ever, inanything, I'm not kidding!), why not check out the info in Bunny101? Or pick up an actual good book, not the glossy pet storeones. Rabbit Health in the 21st Century isexcellant. There's also the The House Rabbit Primer and theHRS book A House Rabbit Handbook, both good. There's abreeder book with good health and diet info in it that Pamnockrecommends. I think it's Rabbit Production?

And yes, I was talking about the pellets at Walmart beingbad. Kaytee hay is, well, edible and nutritious. Ifyou can find good bales of hay from a local source they're often muchmore tasty, more fresh, and less expensive. If that's notavailable I'm a big fan of buying in bulk from Oxbow because it savesmoney versus buying tiny bags at the store. That's a costissue though.

Here's some links to relevant threads in Bunny 101:
Feeding Your Rabbit
Pellets
Vegetables

There's tons of info there. It can be a bit of an overload,so if you're looking for something specific or just want specific typesof articles recommended, just ask. I put nearly all of ittogether so I can usually find things pretty quickly.

 

[Haley]

Are we overloading you with info??!! lol

Heres the pics of the different stuff I have for my buns: