ivermectin vs. fenbendazole

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Baby Juliet

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I saw this on "pigeon talk" and want to know how it affects rabbits.

Also read that rats can be treated with ivermectin paste applied in the anal area with a 7 day course and wonder if this is safer than feeding a rabbit with horse paste?

In addition advice on using D-Worm (dipiperazine sulfate) is appreciated. Is a 5 day course better than a single one day dose? Would rabbits eat pellets soaked with it?

Should all outdoor rabbits be dewormed in general?
 

ra7751

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Hi,

I would highly suggest having a rabbit savvyvet involved when deworming a rabbit. You need to know what you are dealing with as far as worms and what drugs are safe. And you are in effect dosing a toxin.....and rabbits respond horribly (including death) to improperly used drugs of any type. Ivermectin is basically a toxin that does work against certain parasites both internal and external. But it has to be dosed properly. Fenbendazole is used with horses but is used in many species including humans. If I were treating the most common worms, I would use Fenbendazole over Ivermectin. Coccida, which is common in outdoor animals, would not be treated by either Ivermectin or Fedbendazole.

Randy
 

ra7751

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I don't usually mention this because most people have no training in this.....but drugs are quickly absorbed when used a a suppository. Have given valium and Capstar in this fashion recently. Valium is dosed like this to an animal in a seizure since it would be almost impossible to get a vein for IV unless there was already a catheter inserted. Not something that most people are aware of....or should attempt....but it is medically correct in certain situations. I would consider this protocol an emergencyaction that should be performed in a clinic.

Randy
 

tonyshuman

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Yes, a vet is best when giving rabbits a medicine that is controlled (like most dewormers). Also, the horse form may be available at the feed store without a prescription, but the strength of the cream is much greater than you would give to a rabbit. It would be best to work with a vet (at least initially) to set up a dosing regimen for a certain product. I understand that you may have a large number of rabbits that you would like to deworm regularly to keep the health of your stock good, but I think this kind of plan (what drug to give, how to give it, how much, how frequently) should be designed by a vet. I personally don't think preventative treatment with a potentially dangerous product like most dewormers is a good idea, but I know many breeders do it. In general, I think that any treatment plan that deals with controlled medicine or with medicine that is in a preparation meant for another animal should be created by a vet.
 

tonyshuman

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I googled the dipiperazine sulfate and came up with this story of a cat who was dewormed with it with terrible consequences. It's an example of how the strength of a drug is different in preparations meant for different animals and that needs to be taken into account when creating a dosing regimen. http://en.allexperts.com/q/Cats-1606/wormer-cats.htm

Generally I don't like to link to ask.com because not all the posters are experts, but as an anecdote of the dangers of giving the wrong dose of a product it is useful.
 

Maureen Las

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tonyshuman wrote:
Yes, a vet is best when giving rabbits a medicine that is controlled (like most dewormers). Also, the horse form may be available at the feed store without a prescription, but the strength of the cream is much greater than you would give to a rabbit. It would be best to work with a vet (at least initially) to set up a dosing regimen for a certain product. I understand that you may have a large number of rabbits that you would like to deworm regularly to keep the health of your stock good, but I think this kind of plan (what drug to give, how to give it, how much, how frequently) should be designed by a vet. I personally don't think preventative treatment with a potentially dangerous product like most dewormers is a good idea, but I know many breeders do it. In general, I think that any treatment plan that deals with controlled medicine or with medicine that is in a preparation meant for another animal should be created by a vet.
I agree with Claire and Randy
 

krsbunny

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I also agree that diagnosis,risk/benefit assessment, the choice of substance, and the dosing (amount and frequency) should be discussed with a vet.

Kathy Smith
 

ra7751

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Actually pinworms are clinically significant for various reasons. They are usually nocturnal and you have to "sneak up" on them....a flashlight on the rear end. I prefer to evict them.

And just my personal opinion....but I donotconsider the Merck Manual to be accurate information as a general rule. I personally feel that a lot of what is contained in that publication is woefully out of date. ButI have the same feeling aboutseveral publications. And there are a few that are excellent but written in technical terms.

The issues in dosing paste wormers in small amounts is the inconsistency of the actual drug in any one part of the paste (which makes dosing a small amount of paste up to debate on the actual amount of meds in that particular dosing).....and the paste has to be weighed and compensations made for the concentration of the paste and then deal with the actual mean dosing in the suspension. Those issues are something I had to deal with in using Ponazuril on my own. Not an issue with a horse because there is a known amount of drug in each syringe and usually the horse is given a full syringe so "hot spots" in the syringe are not a concern..but if you are only dosing a few grams, a concentrated area of drug in the paste has the potential to cause problems.

Randy
 

Maureen Las

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ra7751 wrote:
Actually pinworms are clinically significant for various reasons. They are usually nocturnal and you have to "sneak up" on them....a flashlight on the rear end. I prefer to evict them.

And just my personal opinion....but I donotconsider the Merck Manual to be accurate information as a general rule. I personally feel that a lot of what is contained in that publication is woefully out of date. ButI have the same feeling aboutseveral publications. And there are a few that are excellent but written in technical terms.

The issues in dosing paste wormers in small amounts is the inconsistency of the actual drug in any one part of the paste (which makes dosing a small amount of paste up to debate on the actual amount of meds in that particular dosing).....and the paste has to be weighed and compensations made for the concentration of the paste and then deal with the actual mean dosing in the suspension. Those issues are something I had to deal with in using Ponazuril on my own. Not an issue with a horse because there is a known amount of drug in each syringe and usually the horse is given a full syringe so "hot spots" in the syringe are not a concern..but if you are only dosing a few grams, a concentrated area of drug in the paste has the potential to cause problems.

Randy
Great point randy ...wouldn't have thought of that but I have seen those giant tubes for horses in farm/fleet

and who would want their rabbits to continue to have pinworms ?
 

Baby Juliet

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Well, you can buy ivermectin liquid for around $40 to treat multiple animals accurately. If it's just one rabbit I guess you might as well use the vet. This was a couple years ago when I saw it at the feed store. Don't know what fenbendazole cost but it is according to the web 98% effective for pinworms.

Do rescues always use the vet or would they just treat common things like worms on their own?
 

Maureen Las

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they onlydeworm cats and dogs at my shelter; don't know about others but they also have vets and vet techs at many rescues that do the prescribing and monitoring. We have a microscope at our shelter where the more educated caretakers can look at fecals ''look for coccidia etc"
shelters also have a variety of veterinary drugs (not farm store meds) in supply;
rabbits at my shelter are taken to a vet as we donot have a vet at our shelter
 

pamnock

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Piperazine is one ofthe most commonly used de-wormer by breeders. Pinworms are very common in rabbits, so I treat a couple times a year using our automatic watering system.

I use Ivermectin when I only have to treat a few rabbits, and because it also treats fur mites.

Oxfendazole paste is also sold by some rabbit suppliers for use in treating pinworms.

I also advise seeking a vet's opinion for proper diagnosis and treatment of rabbit parasites, athough some vets cannot identify rabbit pinworm oocytes and may not be able to provide an accurate diagnosis.

Pam
 

Flashy

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We've had pinworms here a few times and I routinely treat them. The initial consult was with a vet but now he just sells me what I need (I have a clutch of buns, and some RSPCA fosters too).
 

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