Here we go again!

[Cheyrul]

RosL wrote:

Is that the excuse for your rudeness too?

Yet, I am not in a snit over some flip remark by a person I do not know and you are! Look, your attitude is just as rude as mine. You are being mean and judgmental about stuff you do not know all the facts. Someone made a flip comment to be FUNNY!

Whoever it was, who said I should know what I am arguing about ....maybe if you had used to same logic over someone flip comment ....

 

[RosL]

Could moderators please give their opinion as to who is being rude here?

 

[Cheyrul]

For real?

 

[Yurusumaji]

Cheyrul wrote:

RosL wrote:

Is that the excuse for your rudeness too?

Yet, I am not in a snit over some flip remark by a person I do not know and you are! Look, your attitude is just as rude as mine. You are being mean and judgmental about stuff you do not know all the facts. Someone made a flip comment to be FUNNY!

Whoever it was, who said I should know what I am arguing about ....maybe if you had used to same logic over someone flip comment ....

I have no idea what you are talking about, please clarify what you're so upset over.

 

[plasticbunny]

Cheyrul wrote:

some of you are nuts and seriously need a life outside of your rabbits.

You have absolutely no way of knowing for sure that the cage was too small or inadequate, the exact breed of bunny or if she did any research. From the article it was a 3 month campaign from her kids, since she purchased all necessary supplies a bunny needs, she did some type of research.

Any seriously? you say she was horrible to get them but you want her to KEEP them when she, according to you, had the wrong cage and it was outside which apparently is abusive(?)and the rabbits were with children (which mine own are- actually the rabbits are children's!)and NEGLECTED. Again, you say if she was responsible she should have keep them, I say she was responsible by giving them a probably better life.

Here is a little back story on our rabbits and how we got them, I was accused of have munchausen's by proxy, so my 7 kids were placed in foster care to supposedly heal while they terminated my parental rights. Long story short, the kids were placed in a very neglectful and emotionally abusive home for 9 mo, then separate into sets of two and placed in 4 different homes. One set of set went with some loving (actually all the new foster homes were good) people who had a farm and used to raise African greys (which my sister and parents did also, so I know about their needs). At this home, each of the foster kids (3) were given a bunny when they went to an animal auction. One rabbit died, the other two were a male and female, which were housed outside in a cage that was probably 2'x 3'and had a wire bottom which set directly on the ground. When it rained, the cage was covered in a tarp and they were fed pellets, apples and carrots every day. They had an African Grey house in a similar cage hanging in pine tree (which here offer little to no shade) and in the same cage was a guinea pig... according to you, the foster parents would have been RESPONSIBLE pet owners had they KEPT the animals. The bunnies were the only positive thing that happened to my kids in 14 months, while I proved the state wrong. Since my kids loved their bunnies, I did research on what we would need keep them. Everything I found on the web gave glowing reports and made it and potty training so very easy, it is not. So know, we have 4 bunnies I would prefer not to and a chewed up house. Yet, I am positive you would consider me a bad person because I have one cage which houses 4 and I have kids who carry the rabbits every and play with them constantly and sometimes the kids are too rough, sometimes the bunnies are too rough, sometimes it is the dog ... whatever, the bunnies are better off than being in a stew or casserole which could have happened at an auction or as snake food.

There are basic rules to outline the care of any living creature, to ensure it has the basics of quality of life. Keeping 4 rabbits in one cage is disgusting, inhumane, and somewhat disturbing. I am curious to see what you would do if one of your children accidently dropped or stepped on one of these bunnies while "playing too rough". Would you even consider paying an expensive vet bill?

It is easy to crate a bunny and forget about it because they can't wimper or whine or make any sort of noise to get out. It is easy to think you are giving them a good life because they are basically incapable of complaining. It is easy to convince yourself that you are doing a good job even when you aren't.

And just because there are some wonderful, loving and humane individuals on this forum who are outraged by the antics of one irresponsible human being, does not give you the right to be so rude to them. To some people, their pets ARE their life, or they've dedicated their careers or free time to helping poor animals, including rabbits.

 

[RosL]

Cheyrul wrote:

some of you are nuts and seriously need a life outside of your rabbits.

You have absolutely no way of knowing for sure that the cage was too small or inadequate, the exact breed of bunny or if she did any research. From the article it was a 3 month campaign from her kids, since she purchased all necessary supplies a bunny needs, she did some type of research.

Any seriously? you say she was horrible to get them but you want her to KEEP them when she, according to you, had the wrong cage and it was outside which apparently is abusive(?)and the rabbits were with children (which mine own are- actually the rabbits are children's!)and NEGLECTED. Again, you say if she was responsible she should have keep them, I say she was responsible by giving them a probably better life.

Here is a little back story on our rabbits and how we got them, I was accused of have munchausen's by proxy, so my 7 kids were placed in foster care to supposedly heal while they terminated my parental rights. Long story short, the kids were placed in a very neglectful and emotionally abusive home for 9 mo, then separate into sets of two and placed in 4 different homes. One set of set went with some loving (actually all the new foster homes were good) people who had a farm and used to raise African greys (which my sister and parents did also, so I know about their needs). At this home, each of the foster kids (3) were given a bunny when they went to an animal auction. One rabbit died, the other two were a male and female, which were housed outside in a cage that was probably 2'x 3'and had a wire bottom which set directly on the ground. When it rained, the cage was covered in a tarp and they were fed pellets, apples and carrots every day. They had an African Grey house in a similar cage hanging in pine tree (which here offer little to no shade) and in the same cage was a guinea pig... according to you, the foster parents would have been RESPONSIBLE pet owners had they KEPT the animals. The bunnies were the only positive thing that happened to my kids in 14 months, while I proved the state wrong. Since my kids loved their bunnies, I did research on what we would need keep them. Everything I found on the web gave glowing reports and made it and potty training so very easy, it is not. So know, we have 4 bunnies I would prefer not to and a chewed up house. Yet, I am positive you would consider me a bad person because I have one cage which houses 4 and I have kids who carry the rabbits every and play with them constantly and sometimes the kids are too rough, sometimes the bunnies are too rough, sometimes it is the dog ... whatever, the bunnies are better off than being in a stew or casserole which could have happened at an auction or as snake food.

Who said keeping rabbits outside is abusive? I don't see that statement anywhere on this thread.

I live in the UK. Most rabbits in this country live outside. Those living outside who are well looked after have spacious hutches or perhaps converted sheds with attached runs, all secure from predators. They have enough space to play, to demonstrate natural behaviours such as running, digging, stretching and hopping.

The dimensions I quoted are the recommendations given by the Rabbit Welfare Association and Fund of which I have been a supporter for many years. They are also from the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, the Blue Cross and the Welsh Assembly, which is the governing body of Wales, one of the countries that makes up the UK.

This information can be found on the RWAF website here A Hutch is Not Enough campaign pages and a shorter version here A Hutch is Not Enough leaflet In addition there is information about bonding rabbits - another aspect of natural behaviour Bunny Buddies leaflet, information on keeping rabbits outside Rabbits need SECS! leaflet and this which is now due for updating written during the draft period prior to the Animal Welfare Act coming into force Rabbit Owners - don't get caught out by the Animal Welfare Bill leaflet

There is plenty of information about this, plenty of advice. I don't know who in this thread has criticised outdoor bunnies...it certainly wasn't me.

The article stated that the rabbits were dwarfs. That gives us a good idea of their size.

None of us has any idea at all what kind of life those rabbits went to. We cannot be sure it was better, nor that it was worse, only that the columnist seemed very pleased that she had got rid of them. She seemed totally disinterested in their fate after that.

4 rabbits in one cage? Anywhere near as big as it would be according to what our UK guidelines advise?

Of all the rabbits I've had only one has refused to use a litter tray...but she uses the same spot every time, and so I use a waterproof doormat where she has chosen for her toilet, and change and wash those mats each day...problem solved.

the bunnies are better off than being in a stew or casserole which could have happened at an auction or as snake food.

It seems to me that like the first sentence, this is included in an effort to cause both offence and distress

 

[Yurusumaji]

Actually, this "my rabbits are better off with me" attitude sounds more like something a hoarder would say. It's the mind's attempt at justification for keeping 4 rabbits in one cage.

See, your mind realizes there's a problem with how you are keeping your rabbits, which is why you are making excuses to justify your own cruel conditions. This is also why you're quick to defend a bad rabbit owner because if we speak out against her, we speak out against you. Yes?

I don't have to call you a bad rabbit owner because you did it yourself.

 

[fuzz16]

first..if you have nothing to say...dont say it. this has been beat into us since we were kids. dont feed the fire because you are upset. walk away.

you know nothing about her hutch size or the quality of care she gives to her rabbits. there have been rabbits who are in groups of more than 7 and fine. so assuming she squishes them in a box makes you seem the rude one when ideally everyone here should be open minded and nice...NICE. thats why people like this forum. so many forums have died and fallen apart due to people being over judgemental and feeding a high school drama that just ends up with people hurt and offended and upset.

this forum is too good for bullies to come ruin it because they dont just hit the close button and ignore a thread.

 

[Yurusumaji]

Where was this bit of ageless knowledge when she was being rude to everyone else?

 

[fuzz16]

well...not sure.

but heres another one...if you get hit, you dont hit back, you be the bigger person

 

[Cheyrul]

Yurusumaji wrote:

Actually, this "my rabbits are better off with me" attitude sounds more like something a hoarder would say. It's the mind's attempt at justification for keeping 4 rabbits in one cage.

See, your mind realizes there's a problem with how you are keeping your rabbits, which is why you are making excuses to justify your own cruel conditions. This is also why you're quick to defend a bad rabbit owner because if we speak out against her, we speak out against you. Yes?

I don't have to call you a bad rabbit owner because you did it yourself.

and i am rude? Lmao

 

[Anaira]

Cheyrul wrote:

some of you are nuts and seriously need a life outside of your rabbits.

Seriously? You come onto a rabbit forum and say that? You don't know anything about my life(for a start), so don't say things like that. That started this whole 'rude' argument in the first place.


In my view, from what I read from her article, is that she spent the money. She got a great set-up(I find nothing in her article to show she didn't start off as a great rabbit-owner) and cleaned out her rabbits everyday. Great owner.

But she wasn't happy with the amount of work she had to do. She did not research(if she had, she would have known what to expect) so she dumped them. And she all but said 'dumped' in her article. That is my problem. And she then made it sound as though rabbits are in some way to blame for being abused 75% of the time.

This is not about what she did when she had them, it's about the way she dumped them. And then wrote a couple of paragraphs about it in her column, as though she did something amusing. Non-rabbit people will read that, and say 'oh, so no wonder rabbits aren't popular then. I've always heard they were nasty...' etc.

This is not about how we(in this thread) look after our rabbits, nor how she looked after them. Please don't let this get personal.

 

[Happi Bun]

Cheyrul wrote:

some of you are nuts and seriously need a life outside of your rabbits.

Nuts? You bet. Need a life outside of my rabbits? No thanks, I like the one I have.

 

[Myia09]

Cheyrul, I am nuts about my rabbits, rescue, mainly rabbit rescue, is MY LIFE, completely my life, my passion, and my life pursuit. And so it is for many people on this forum.

We dedicate our lives to education and welfare for animals-that isn't nuts, it is pretty admirable.

And everyone here has stated it isn't the way she kept the rabbits-it is how she "got rid of them" which is a huge problem rabbit rescues have. People get tired of their rabbits once they lose their appeal after not properly researching the subject matter and toss them away. And that upsets us because it happens to thousands of rabbits a year. Here in AZ we have over 500 rabbits (In 4 different organizations) awaiting adoption.

I honestly think what Yurusumaji posted may be a bit accurate...sure keeping 4 buns together isn't bad, but what are the dimensions of your cage? And you say your kids are too rough (and even your dog from what I gathered) and you allow that to happen? I feel bad for your rabbits to be manhandled by your children and scared by your dog. Sure, we can say it is better than being "Snake food" but barely living and living isn't the same.

If you can't provide the best care, you shouldn't provide the home. And it is too bad because all these "circumstances" of how people got the rabbits just to toss them away or provide bad conditions to justify keeping them is heartbreaking.

"So I find myself agreeing with John Humphrys, who’s got himself in hot water for suggesting the best place for a rabbit is in a casserole."

She is saying that RABBITS SHOULD NOT BE KEPT AS PETS BUT USED AS FOOD. Really? Horrible. I am surprised instead of giving them away she didn't eat them herself she is so messed up.

 

[JadeIcing]

Forum rules.

Unacceptable Behavior (Subject to Warnings):

- name calling

- ridiculing of another's opinion

- failure to 'agree to disagree'

- the posting of obviously inflammatory topics (eg: rabbit meat, breeder vs. animal rights attacks)

- overly abrasive or negative posts on any topic

- personal vendettas

- 'advertising' or linking other forums or commercial ventures in posts (see Content Rules for advertising policies).


Consider this a warning to ALL.

 

[Cheyrul]

Happi Bun wrote:

Cheyrul wrote:

some of you are nuts and seriously need a life outside of your rabbits.

Nuts? You bet. Need a life outside of my rabbits? No thanks, I like the one I have.

I totally understand loving your pets and having them be a huge part, if not all of your life, mine are too. But being so nasty and bent out of shape because someone else does not share your feelings, is quite silly imo. It reminds of parenting boards where people are hated for breast feeding, for not breast feeding, which car seat you have determines your quality of a parent, etc. Or when someone purchases, ie; adopts a purebred over a rescue mutt, raw diet vs commercial .... none of those things matter in the grand scheme of thing.

The comments the from the reporter, sounded like they were meant to be flip and humorous. She did not "dump" the rabbits but found them a better home. I, believe, that pets should be in homes where they are loved and wanted, rather than be cared for someone who hates them and treats them as nothing but a an obligation.

 

[RosL]

Cheyrul wrote:

I totally understand loving your pets and having them be a huge part, if not all of your life, mine are too. But being so nasty and bent out of shape because someone else does not share your feelings, is quite silly imo. It reminds of parenting boards where people are hated for breast feeding, for not breast feeding, which car seat you have determines your quality of a parent, etc. Or when someone purchases, ie; adopts a purebred over a rescue mutt, raw diet vs commercial .... none of those things matter in the grand scheme of thing.

The comments the from the reporter, sounded like they were meant to be flip and humorous. She did not "dump" the rabbits but found them a better home. I, believe, that pets should be in homes where they are loved and wanted, rather than be cared for someone who hates them and treats them as nothing but a an obligation.

Yes, of course they should...but I can't see anything at all humerous in the reporter's comments. They might amuse some - but having had opinions on other forums as well as this one from other rabbit people, there are precious few who can see anything even vaguely funny about it, rather that her attitude, her 'managing to give away' the rabbits, no mention of a better home - only indicates her irresponsibility and her lack of respect for these animals.

This is what is so dreadful, and that she is able to hold forth about it in a national daily paper in a tone that shows she feels she did entirely the right thing.

The message she gives is dreadful.

 

[Cheyrul]

Myia09 wrote:

Cheyrul, I am nuts about my rabbits, rescue, mainly rabbit rescue, is MY LIFE, completely my life, my passion, and my life pursuit. And so it is for many people on this forum.

We dedicate our lives to education and welfare for animals-that isn't nuts, it is pretty admirable.

And everyone here has stated it isn't the way she kept the rabbits-it is how she "got rid of them" which is a huge problem rabbit rescues have. People get tired of their rabbits once they lose their appeal after not properly researching the subject matter and toss them away. And that upsets us because it happens to thousands of rabbits a year. Here in AZ we have over 500 rabbits (In 4 different organizations) awaiting adoption.

I honestly think what Yurusumaji posted may be a bit accurate...sure keeping 4 buns together isn't bad, but what are the dimensions of your cage? And you say your kids are too rough (and even your dog from what I gathered) and you allow that to happen? I feel bad for your rabbits to be manhandled by your children and scared by your dog. Sure, we can say it is better than being "Snake food" but barely living and living isn't the same.

If you can't provide the best care, you shouldn't provide the home. And it is too bad because all these "circumstances" of how people got the rabbits just to toss them away or provide bad conditions to justify keeping them is heartbreaking.

"So I find myself agreeing with John Humphrys, who’s got himself in hot water for suggesting the best place for a rabbit is in a casserole."

She is saying that RABBITS SHOULD NOT BE KEPT AS PETS BUT USED AS FOOD. Really? Horrible. I am surprised instead of giving them away she didn't eat them herself she is so messed up.

First off, there are people on this very site who raise rabbits as food. I do not eat rabbit, or much meat to begin with because of my love of animals.
You suggest that my rabbits, are barely living but berate someone who realized her rabbits deserved a better life and made sure it happened. You cannot have it both ways.
Also, our rabbits are not abused by my kids or dogs. They are loved on and played with, have never been injured or sick (okay, the mom did die after she had the babies but I was really very new to the whole bunny thing). The cats are terrified of the bunnies because Curly chases and bites them, he has not injured them. The bunnies dominate the dogs as well, the only time there has been any thing close to an issue is when they hop all over the old dog when she is sleeping, Lucy gets snappy.
I will not share the dimensions of our cage because it is fine and nunya. And the rabbits are only in it when we are not home and at night. They are not left out unsupervised with kids are dogs and cats.

 

[RosL]

You suggest that my rabbits, are barely living but berate someone who realized her rabbits deserved a better life and made sure it happened.

The point is, though, that she didn't palm them off onto somebody else because she believed they needed a better life...she did it because she considered them an inconvenience.

 

[Myia09]

I should clarify I am not arguing the meat rabbit thing as I know that is off limits, but I don't find it humorous that she suggested ALL rabbits are better off as casserole instead of at least recognize they are pets to thousands of people and many of who which love and care about them... people who rescue and keep rabbits strictly as pets find this extremely offensive. It IS the equivalent of her saying what a chore cleaning out a cat's litter box is and the shedding and that cats are better off dead but people don't make that connection.

There isn't any argument she DUMPED her rabbits. She said so. Who really cares WHAT she did during the time she had them. It is the END that matters most and her OPINION on where rabbits belong in society i.e not as pets.

And Cheryul I don't mean to suggest you abuse or don't take care of your rabbits, but you stated:
"I have kids who carry the rabbits every and play with them constantly and sometimes the kids are too rough, sometimes the bunnies are too rough, sometimes it is the dog ... whatever, the bunnies are better off than being in a stew or casserole which could have happened at an auction or as snake food."

Which is why I implied that. I sounded a lot more harsh than I intended to be. I was generally saying that anyone who can't provide the best home shouldn't take in an animal.