Help lethargic bunny

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by button+banjo, Aug 14, 2019.

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  1. Aug 17, 2019 #21

    button+banjo

    button+banjo

    button+banjo

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    Its been a few hours and he is the same. I gave more gas drops. Is it safe to give more pain meds? He hates being picked up. I have tried to massage his stomach
     
  2. Aug 17, 2019 #22

    Preitler

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    I'm sorry you're going through this.

    When force feeding them, I put them on my lap and seesaw(?expression) them up and down, you'll notice after a minute if they like it. It's the same as a belly massage, it helps to get things moving. I did that for 10-20 minutes, feeding a mouthfull now and then.

    I always dress up for an arctic expedition, still end up looking like I did sparring for Freddy Krueger...
     
  3. Aug 17, 2019 #23

    button+banjo

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    Okay. Ive given him 1ML of childrens ibuprofen and some more gas drops. He hates being massaged. Hopefully the pain meds will work.
     
  4. Aug 17, 2019 #24

    Preitler

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    Does the massage hurt him, or is it just him resenting being handled?

    If it's the second, he doesn't have a vote. I have rabbits that I never pick up, they don't allow it and it's a bloody mess (my blood) when I try it, but when it's necessary their preferences can go to hell, what needs to get done gets done.

    When it obviously hurts him, even when rocking him gently, well, I don't know, no experience with that.

    Pain meds help, a lot and they are a great addition, but imho they don't address the root of the problem. I used Ibuprofen too, crushed up my hangover pills for dosage.

    Good luck.
     
  5. Aug 17, 2019 #25

    cuteus

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    Oh no! Do you have pain meds? Metacam would be best. If it is the same thing as Button, it might need hospitalization for supportive therapy. They can give him a motility drugs plus pain meds. If they are outside buns, did you look for insect bites? He could be in danger if toxins are in his blood from the bites. My Houdini had a large gas bubble after trying broccoli a day or two before. Stasis was next. He spent some time in the hospital. Pain management is paramount! I am so sorry for this double whammy! Houdini is having GI issues again and I got propulsid (intestinal motility), Metacam and the simethicone. If the bun starts getting lethargic it could spiral down fast, that is why the pain must be contained, then the gas, if any. If nothing is moving out, then motility drugs. He needs to be seen by the vet. He might just shut down and accept no more interventions. Prey animals are odd in that, they seem to "give up" when the discomfort is too much. It happened with my small birds and with my first bunny.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  6. Aug 17, 2019 #26

    Lynsey harry

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    Mine goes through stages of not eating he is given emeprid 4-5 times aday and metacam once a day .i also syringe critical care food every few hours and I always make sure he has a plate of his fav fruit and veg don’t keep picking him up as he could be hurting or have bloat . By the end of the day he’s eating etc normally again . I’ve never been told to give aspirin . Good luck hope ur bunny gets better I would get him to a vet tho if u can sooner rather than later so they can nurse him . I’ve lost one to it fine one day gone the next happens so quick! Also is he vaccinated ? If not could be vhd
     
  7. Aug 17, 2019 #27

    Lenka

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    Omg. I hope your bunny will get better. It’s so sad.
     
  8. Aug 17, 2019 #28

    Sharda Hartley

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    I'm so sorry. I've read that a bonded rabbit can experience severe emotional and physical distress after losing their partner. I can only suggest to continue with your GI Stasis care and hope for the best.
     
  9. Aug 17, 2019 #29

    Preitler

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    What I forgot to mention, last time a doe stopped eating I got up every 3 hours, syringe fed about 15-20ml mixed with Simethicone and pain meds, and water, rocked her for 15 minutes and went back to sleep. That did it, after 4-5 days of ups and downs, visit to the vet.

    There is no RHD in the US, right?

    Yeah, that's prerty much it. My doe was 7 years old, never really friendly, but after that ordeal she was a really nice bunny, although she absolutly hated being handled, ruined my winter jacket and left me with lots of bruises she didn't hold a grudge, she knew it helped. She died 2 months later, peacefully and not in pain, I'm sure she had a tumor or something.
     
  10. Aug 18, 2019 #30

    button+banjo

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    The only vet that sees rabbits near us (an hour away) is closed today with no emergency number. However, we were able to convince our local cat and dog vet (who has emergency hours) to sell us some metacam liquid, reglan tablets, and baytril. We gave banjo some subq fluids we had left over from button. Banjo is still not eating, drinking, pooping. He peed once this morning. Still pressing belly to ground/uncomfortable. Belly not hard. He does not like massage but i have tried several times. He just gets more stress (biting and kicking) every time i wrap him up to try to feed him. Have given tons of gas drops and haven't seen a difference. He also has heat pad. I gave him 2mg of metacam this evening per a dosage i found here:https://www.vgr1.com/metacam/

    I guess i wil try to figure out how to dose the reglan tablets now.
     
  11. Aug 18, 2019 #31

    cuteus

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    Thank goodness for that vet. Not sure about giving him baytril while he is having gastric issues since it can kill whatever beneficial flora he has left. The vet must have his reasons. Metacam does seem to have dosages for acute, short term pain management, a larger dose than usual. I hope you used that. My bunny is on .6ml bid of the 1.5mg formulation. I think he was 1.3kg at last visit. I guess my vet was just a tad short. Savvy vets are now dosing rabbits more aggressively with meloxicam. One of his former vets only gave him .3ml, which is the old conservative dosage. Good luck with the reglan dosing. Poor Banjo! I hope he responds. It is so stressful reading the post and knowing how it feels first hand.
     
  12. Aug 18, 2019 #32

    button+banjo

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    We have good news guys! Last night between 3am and 6am he started producing pellets!! This morning he is eating hay and drinking water!!

    I do have one question. We gave the Reglan ( Metoclopramide) last night at about 10:40 pm. From what i read you can give it 2-3x a day. Should we continue that or should we stop it since he is acting so much better? @JBun @Blue eyes @Imbrium @Preitler

    Also, I know not to give him anything but hay. Is it ok to give him critical care in a bowl if he will take it? I don't want to stop him up again.
     
  13. Aug 18, 2019 #33

    cuteus

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    OMG! I was so afraid to look at this post! Now, I could jump for joy for Banjo! Only rabbit owners can be seen jumping for joy over poops, no one else understands! The motility drug label on mine says to give until passing stools normal 2 times a day, reduce to once a day for 3 days. Discontinue if diarrhea. I will continue the Metacam and simethicone for a few more days. Banjo does not know what a great mom he has and how much she loves him. I hope he continues the improvement. Cautiously optimistic. Do not let your guard down yet. As for Critical Care (CC), as long as the poops don't get small again, he might not need it. If he takes it, go for it.
    I know they are supposed to have hay and fresh greens as main food, but when they are compromised and eating nothing or little, we got to try anything that will not kill them. People might frown on what I am giving mine, who is still on stasis (very small poops). I read where owners were using oats and sunflower seeds as treats and tried that when he stopped food pellets altogether. He ate them readily and also hay and greens. I got the CC and mixed it with baby food (advise from UK site because rabbit husbandry has been ongoing there longer than in US and my vet feels that they have more background knowledge.) I found pumpkin as his preference ( he will eat from spoon so I don't have to force feed). The UK does have a recovery feed with more fiber than CC (42% v. 27%) but they won't ship to US. My bun is 11 and I have this mentality that he is still too young to die, so I give him what he will eat and watch for adverse reactions. This morning he said no to a bit of banana where he would have climb up on me to eat it in the past, :-( I then gave him a dry cranberry ( he has sludge) and he ate it! Find what will work as long as it doesn't hurt him. Best wishes to both mom and son!
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
  14. Aug 18, 2019 #34

    Camelia_Eva

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    The METACAM dosage that is in the Internet is for cats and dogs. My bun is 5.5 lb and what I had learned is that the MAX of Metacam x day I could give her for serious stuff is 1.2 ml. It would be much safer if you give him 0.5 ml or 0.5 ml twice a day.
    Even though it is recommended to give one dose, an expert exotic vet told me that it is better to divide the dose in twice x day.

    I would also do not bother him much with massages if that stresses him out. Keep him warm if you see that he is loosing temperature. The fluids were an excellent idea. What I had learned for a 5.5 lb the max fluid that it can received is 150 ml. This is for cases of dehydration.
    If Banjo needs more fluids, ask the vet to give him B12 also (0.3 ml for a 5.5 lb bun). The B12 may stimulate his appetite.
    Avoid sweets cause this can mess up his GI more.
    In cases of emergency, instead of Oxbow Critical Care, I use Sherwood SARx soy-free. However, if you do not have any of these, you can put some pellets in water and make a paste. Then you syringe feed him this paste. Even though they recommend a lot of critical food x day, try to feed him 20 ml x 5 lb of bunny. It's important that he does not get stressed out much.
    Good luck!!
     
  15. Aug 18, 2019 #35

    button+banjo

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    I gave him 4 ml metacam yesterday, based on what I read here: https://www.vgr1.com/metacam/

    " The dosage of meloxicam in rabbits is 1 mg/kg/day, which is also significantly higher than that in dogs and cats. "

    He weighs about 2 kg, and the metacam is 0.5 mg/ml, so 4 mls is 2 mg of medicine
     
  16. Aug 18, 2019 #36

    Camelia_Eva

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    The metacam my vet prescribed has a concentration of 1.5 mg/ml. If this is the one you are using, 4 ml is way, way, way too much! And he would be super lethargic.

    However, if you are using a lower concentration than1.5 mg/ml, I do not know what dosage is safe.

    I hope he recovers well and soon!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
  17. Aug 18, 2019 #37

    cuteus

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    I liked that website you linked to! I think I read this one a long time ago. If you used the calculator and that was the result, then it should be fine. Confirm it with the vet tomorrow. It is informative that the site explains that bunnies metabolize the med a lot faster than the other animals and that is why once a day dose is not the optimal. My vet split it in two, .6ml each time. I thought she was conservative but she actually prescribed more than what the calculator said for me. I also liked how the site explained that the dose could be more depending on the condition you are treating. As we know, they are only giving a basic recommendation. The dose you gave, could have been more if my vet was prescribing, she is an exotics vet that has been published, so I trust her. Confirm with the vet tomorrow. The fact that he responded so well tells you that the dosages were correct for his condition.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
  18. Aug 19, 2019 #38

    cuteus

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    Hum! at that wt .5ml seems on the low side, but it also depends on the condition for which they are receiving treatment. I forgot I had joined this forum in 2009 and one vet pitched in to help clear the confusion, page 10 or so, as one of the members kept insisting .8ml was too high. 10 yrs later the confusion continues!;) http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?168318-metacam-dose-*UPDATE*/page12
     
  19. Aug 19, 2019 #39

    Camelia_Eva

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    Thanks Cuteus, it's a good site! I think the key element is the Metacam "CONCENTRATION" used. The one I had used is 1.5 mg/ml. I was told that for this concentration, 1.5 mg/ml, the max x day for a 5.5 lb bunny is 1.2 ml.

    The concentration is stated in the bottle/box of the product.

    Maybe if the concentration is lower, the dosage should be higher?
     
  20. Aug 19, 2019 #40

    JetFalcon

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    Hi I have a question, maybe this thread is related b/c right now my bunny is "lethargic".

    I took him out and there was a dog, the bunny started running and the dog's instinct kicked in, to chase it around. The dog was a small / medium yorkie looking thing, it wasn't super aggressive, but seeing a bunny run around, it wouldn't stop or listen to its owner. I tried very hard to stop the chase, but both animals were so fast running in circles that the bunny refused to be picked up, and the dog wouldn't stop. I finally caught the dog though, and thankfully the dog didn't bite or attack, just scared the bunny causing it to scream while forcing it to sprint for like a minute.

    And then, few hours later, the bunny started to droop its head like it was dying, like couldn't pick his head up. I was really scared, it looked like it was dying. But then next morning, it got better, was able to stand up like a normal bunny and hold its head up.

    But now its late afternoon, and he is still setting his head down, but at least not drooping to the side like its dying. It just looks very tired. I'll try upload some pics from my phone if it works.
     

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