HELP! dimi lethargic!

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napagirl

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It's 11pm here, and noticed Dimi a bit quite tonight. Seemed fine this morning. Is not eating veggies offered, and is very lethargic. Checked box- poops are very reduced... please advise!!
 

JBun

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How long ago since she last ate? Does she seem severely bloated at all? If so, it's an emergency and you need to get her to a vet immediately. If it's not distended, does it seem firm. She probably has GI stasis. If she is still pooping a little, then she doesn't have a blockage yet, but her gut has slowed down and she is probably starting to experience some gas pain. You can try giving her some simethicone(infant gas relief suspension). Dosage is 1-2cc every hour for 3 hours, then 1cc every 3-8 hours as needed. If you have any metacam on hand for her, then you could give a dose of that as well, but if you do, you also need to syringe her some water with it. If you can get the pain under control then she will start eating on her own. If it's not a severe case of stasis, then I usually see results before the third dose of simethicone, and my rabbits will start eating on their own. This is most likely caused by too many carbs and sugars in the diet, so don't feed her any sugary or starchy foods, and don't feed pellets til she is feeling better and her poop is back to normal. Then you can gradually reintroduce them back into the diet, but at a reduced amount than before. Is she grinding her teeth at all, and is she still responsive and alert?

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html
 

napagirl

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She is doing a little click with her teeth. Yes, she is responsive and alert, but lethargic... wanted to stretch out alot. My husband is taking her to the emergency vet right now, he just left- it is ~35min away... I don't know how this happened. I hope they know what they are doing with rabbits.
 

JBun

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She'll most likely need metacam(pain relief), reglan(gut motility med), critical care food mix(for hand feeding at home), and she may need some sub q fluids if she is dehydrated.

They may also need to take an xray, to check for a complete blockage.
 

napagirl

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3am here... hubby still at vet. I talked to them on phone- they feel it is stasis, but she is responsive, hopping around. They feel she will not need the stomach decompression. We could leave her overnight, which we wanted to do, but would have to pick her up by 8am, which is not possible as this vet that he ended up at is 1hr. away, and neither of us has slept at all. So they are doing everything basically, then sending her on her way. They will xray, give sub q fluids, shot of reglan and shot of pain med, and send home meds. Then we have to take her back to the rabbit vet tomorrow sometime. Hubby won't be home til 4:30am. I'm so tired I can't see straight!
 

JBun

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It sounds like she got all the meds and help that she needed. It's probably a good thing that she wasn't able to stay overnight, as that can really stress a rabbit to be somewhere unfamiliar. I hope she is feeling a little better today.
 

napagirl

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Thank you... she seems to be doing better.. Instructions said to start Metacam in morning, so I just gave her a dose. Hubby and her ended up getting home at 6am- I had the bathroom (her old haunt that she loves) set up with lots of greens, her box and hay, and water of course- with a nice blanket. When I checked her at 8am, she had eaten half the greens, and was in her box munching hay. When I gave her the Metacam, she lunged and me and stood up on hind legs fighting me :) A good sign I think. I maybe saw one poop and that's it. Her xray, btw, showed no blockage.

My instructions are to follow up with regular vet (also an hour away) if not eating/pooping by morning. well, she's eating, but I don't see any poops yet. Just wondering how long I should wait to see poops? Should I call to get appt. this afternoon or wait? I don't want to stress her out by another hour long car ride- I'm just not sure what the timeline is once they are eating. I also have Metroclopramide (pro-motility meds) that I am to continue giving until she is eating pooping normally. Any advice? If I need an appt. today, I should call soon.
 

JBun

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So glad to hear she's doing much better and eating. That's so good that there wasn't any sort of blockage. She'll probably be able to get back to normal more quickly because there wasn't. My bun that had a blockage took 2 weeks before he was back to normal. The pooping will come, now that she is eating. It can sometimes take maybe a couple hours for everything to get moving again after so long with not eating. If she's eating and it's quite a bit and not just a few nibbles, that would mean she's feeling pretty good. And with there not being a sign of a blockage, I think that you might be ok without the vet visit. I don't know what more your other vet could do other than what you are already doing. If she wasn't eating and drinking and was dehydrated, they could give her fluids, but other than that you already have the meds you need to help clear this up. And if they also gave you Critical Care food mix in case you have to syringe feed, there really isn't much more that could be done. Plus the stress from a long car ride is good to avoid if at all possible. As long as she continues the way she is going, and continues to eat, she should be ok.
 

napagirl

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thank you, thank you for the info! She ate approximately a handful of arugula and some romaine from when she was brought home to when I checked her at 8am. She was also munching hay at that time. I gave her the Metacam at ~8:30 i think, because the instructions said to start in the morning. Afterward, I thought, hmmm... what morning? LOL. The metacam seems to have made her a bit sedated than she was beforehand. I have not seen her eat more- just maybe one or two arugula leaves. I hope giving her the metacam was not the wrong thing to do... it says once a day, and now I am worried that I may have overmedicated her since it was given ~3:30 or 4 am???? she is drinking water, and not showing signs of stretching out, clicking teeth. She is doing that thing where she scratches/digs at the ground a lot, and likes being petted. Her tummy now feels normal sized, not huge like last night. I am to give the pro-motility drug 3x day, so I will give dose at noon, since she was dosed at 4am.

The vet may be a moot point- her rabbit dr. isn't in until wed, but the receptionist took all my info, and will talk with the dr. and call me back.

Questions: did I give the metacam too early? Like I said, directions said first dose in morning- now i'm confused as to if they meant TOMORROW morning??

They did not give me critical care food. I was told hay, and lots of greens. Can I buy this critical care rabbit food somewhere?

Thanks for all your help!
 

JBun

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You may not even need the critical care, but i always like to have it on hand just in case these kind of things happen, and I end up having to syringe feed my rabbit if it's not eating on it's own. You may be able to find some at a petstore, but usually you either have to order it online or get it from your vet. it's made by oxbow. I like the fine grind as it's easier to syringe feed it without it clogging up the syringe, but most peoples rabbits seem to prefer the regular grind apple banana flavor.

You may want to call the vet office that she went to last night, to ask about when you were supposed to start the metacam. They will have all of that info in their records. It may be that the meds are just causing a little upset. I've heard of the gut motility med sometimes doing that. Keep in mind too, that she was at the vet half the night and she may just be tired. Just keep an eye out for those signs of pain and discomfort: sitting hunched up for long periods and not moving around much, grinding teeth, squinting in pain, immediately changing postions frequently(laying down and getting right back up repeatedly), distended or loud gurgling stomach. If she starts acting like she is having some gas pain, you could also try giving her a dose of simethicone, to see if that helps. Tummy massages and letting her run around will also help get the gut moving.
 
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napagirl

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Thank you- I got the med. issue sorted out. All is ok. I am to give the motility med 3x a day. She is eating well- second plate of arugula, organic kale, and I got some timothy hay (which she loves, but I am horribly allergic to). She usually gets oat grass hay, but doesn't eat it as much. Maybe I'll have to try shaking it outside first.

And.. she pooped!!! Finally! I brought her and her box onto my bed- this is her cuddle/safe area. She hopped around just like her old self- jumping on my back, licking me. Then jumped into her box and let it rip! ~20-25 poops. They look normal, but some have some hair connecting them. She sheds CONSTANTLY, and I brush her all the time, but I can't seem to get it all out. I will have to talk to the vet about that.

Now she is crashed out on my lap snoozing. I think she's going to be ok, but I am ever vigilant about her fluids, greens/hay, and will continue motility meds (have another call into vet to find out when to stop them).

Thanks again for your help :bouquet:
 

JBun

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That's great! I know how relieving it is when they finally poop. You almost feel like you can start to relax, at least a little bit :)

If timothy is a problem for you, you could try some of the other grass hays, like orchard, coastal, bermuda, or meadow. Hopefully you can find one that she likes and you aren't allergic to. I've found that with shedding issues, feeding lots of grass hay seems to help the most. Especially if she likes to eat the thicker stems cause they are mostly fiber. You will always see a little fur in the poop during molting, but as long as the poops pretty much stay the same size and shape, that means your rabbit is passing the fur ok. It's when the size decreases a lot, and/or they start coming out not looking very round that it indicates the fur is causing digestive trouble. I find the more fiber from hay, that my rabbits eat, the better and more consistant their poops look.
 

napagirl

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Dimi is doing great! Running around, pooping, eating tons of hay. She is a bit spooked tho, thumping and nervous at at times- prolly because of her ordeal at the vet all night or side effect from Reglan? Who knows...

I have stopped all pellets for good. No more fruit for now either. She is eating the Timothy hay like crazy now, which is good. Since she is at good weight and recently spayed, I am planning on stopping all pellets, for just unlimited hay and the greens she will eat, which are Kale, arugula, and romaine, for the most part. She does not eat most herbs, including basil, mint, cilantro, etc, etc.

I was at pet store today to get a very expensive grooming brush. I was sold Vita Drops high potency multi vitamins liquid for rabbits. I am wondering if this is ok to give her. I can take it back if it is not something I should give her. Any thoughts?
 

JBun

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That's really great to hear that she is feeling so much better. I also have a rabbit that can't have any pellets or he'll get GI stasis. He also ended up with mucous in his poop. Once I took him off pellets, he didn't get stasis again. I feed him timothy hay, a little alfalfa for some extra protein, some leafy greens, and no treats or fruit. I've also used those vita drops with him, if I don't feel like he's getting enough vitamins from what I feed him. I'll usually just start out with a few drops and gradually increase each day, so that he can gradually get used to the new taste of it in his water. So you may want to keep yours on hand. It doesn't need to be refrigerated, but I do, just to keep it fresh and maybe keep the vitamins from degrading.

It is a bit trickier to feed a non pelleted diet, as it's important to make sure they are still getting a balanced diet. It's possible, just a little harder than feeding pellets, which already have all the vitamins they need.
 

napagirl

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Thank you again!

She is still doing great- active, eating tons of hay and greens, but not pooping much? Yes, pooping, but pretty reduced. It never really got back to normal after Sunday night's issue. I read on one site that it can take a few days for the poops to start coming, and the vet's office said that if the stasis began when her stomach was empty, there may not be much poops. Any thoughts on this?? When should poops go back to normal? She is getting her Reglan 1x a day at this point- and it was confirmed that the xray showed no blockage.
 

Zeroshero

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Movement creates "movement" give her some extra play time and see if it helps. Have you read the article titled Ileus in Domestic Rabbits by Dana Kremples?
 
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HEM

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That is great that Dimi is doing good, we are glad to hear
It's good that she is moving around too. If she will let you, tummy rubs are good too
 

napagirl

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Thank you everyone. Yes, Dimi is getting plenty of exercise... outside running, jumping. And I did read that article- GREAT article, now printed out and bookmarked. I also talked to the vet. She said that as long as Dimi is acting happy and eating, lack of poops is ok for now. I will continue motility meds tho. No pellets/fruit (can add some fruit later, here and there).

Tonight, her poops were plentiful, but small, and many bound with hair! :tears2: I am glad I found that new brush at the pet store that gets a ton out. I filled a small bag with hair last night. I will use this twice weekly to get that hair out.

So all is well for now.. Thanks everyone for their invaluable advice and help!
 

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