Gurgling, but squishy belly?

[Kyva]

I've read a few of the GI stasis threads on here, but being the anal mommy I am, I have to make sure this is just normal belly sounds and not something serious.

Cucumber has been having loud belly noises for around an hour now. He was active this morning, and did some fun racing around the apartment a few short hours ago.

He also flopped under my desk and slept for a while.

That said, I was laying with him in his cage, and noticed the gurgling. He ended up stretching, yawning, then doing a full flop. He let me pet him all over and started what I think is tooth-purring, but I also know some teeth grinding can mean pain.

I got him to eat a few bits of hay, and he took two pellets from my hubby, but that's it.

Looking at his food, it doesn't look like he's eaten much hay today, but he ate half his pellets. I'm going to keep an eye on him and hope he gets a drink.

I might be over-analyzing, but I just want to be sure. I cannot remember seeing him drink today. He does have normal poos in his litter box from this morning.

The only thing that's changed is that I moved his litterbox over a bit as he pooed all over the cage last night and I wanted to correct the behavior. Did moving his box 1 foot to the left bother him that much?

Thank you all so much.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

I would doubt that a foot to the left had significant impact.
If you are concerned about water intake, you could offer a water bowl spiked with a little bit of juice. Are you using a water bottle - if so, is it functioning?

When my buns have gas issues, I find that they constantly shift body position, or sit hunched over in an uncomfortable pose. Doesn't sound like there is a major issue here, considering that poops are normal.

Sounds like happy purrs to me, from your description.

Any new vegetables in the diet? Cruciferous veg (broccoli, cabbage) can make for some gassy bunnies.
If the belly starts to swell, no longer squishy, then you would have a bloat issue (dangerous). Seeing as how Cucumber's belly is still squishy, things are probably ok.
Teasing bunnies with hay may get them to snap at it and eat the hay - he may just be full of pellets though.

Keep us updated!

(Love the name by the way - he's adorable!)

 

[Kyva]

Thank you. No, we actually have 2 water bottles and a bowl of water because he still hasn't decided which he likes more.

He ate a few more pellets while we were eating, and he drank for me when I offered him his bowl of water. Not a large amount, but he did drink a few sips. Tummy is still squishy, and he's now grooming himself.

Hubby did try giving him a bit of banana, but he turned away. The only veggies we've given him so far was romaine lettuce, and that was 2 days ago until I see how he handles it.

It's so hard to know where the line is drawn when you've never dealt with GI issues before in bunnies.

Thank you again. I'm going to keep watch and plan to let him out shortly to run around.

 

[JBun]

Loud gurgling would be like, if you were several feet away, or across the room, and you can hear it. You will often be able to hear soft stomach sounds when you are up close, or also some stomach sounds when they are drinking, those are normal. The loud gurgling isn't, and actually is something to be concerned about if you are hearing this from your rabbit. I had a rabbit that had loud gurgling sounds, but at the time I didn't know it was abnormal. She also had irregular fecals. She ended up getting a really bad case of stasis. So it's something that I really pay attention to now. Things to pay attention to are your rabbits posture and showing signs of discomfort, like what northernautumn mentioned. Sitting hunched up for extended periods, grinding teeth(different from contented tooth purring which happens often when a rabbit is being petted and is a softer sound or may sound like chattering), squinting eyes in pain, laying down and pressing belly to the floor and butt pushed up, or changing positions frequently. You can also often tell something is wrong when a rabbits poop isn't normal. Fecals should be round, all about the same size, and look like cocoa puffs basically. Cecals should look a bit like blackberries, but most of the time you will never see them(which is good). If your rabbits poops are really tiny, extra large, irregular shaped, soft and mushy, runny, or stop altogether, then you have a problem. Also if your rabbit isn't eating the food that he normally eats, can also indicate a problem.

If you suspect there may be a problem, don't feed any sugars or carbs. It also helps to cut back on pellets for a few days, so that more hay is eaten. If he seems uncomfortable and gassy, simethicone can be given to help with the gas. Then after a few days, if he seems to be doing ok, you can gradually increase the pellet amount again. If eating and pooping stops, then that is a blockage, and more steps need to be taken, and it often requires a visit to the vet, as it can be a very serious problem.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

 

[Kyva]

I have a short update. He has been grazing on his hay and is drinking now and again. He just did the bunny 500 around the apartment and is doing binkies. That said, he also had a nice pile of poo in the clean litter, and a very small amount of those poos were a tad smaller than usual.

So stop the pellets for now then and just offer hay and water? I need to get to th store for the simethicone. I do have a well-visit on Thursday, but I may call tomorrow to see if I can get it moved up.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

Honestly, I'm not too worried as of yet - he sounds fairly happy, and is eating. Perhaps reduce the pellets a bit, and push the hay a bit.

 

[JBun]

If he's doing bunny 500's, then he's feeling pretty good, doesn't mean there wasn't a little tummy upset earlier though. If the poops were just slightly smaller, then that can be normal, it's when they are quite a bit smaller, that it indicates a slowdown in the gut. If you think he had a bit of a stomach upset, then you could just reduce the amount of pellets(no need to eliminate completely at this point) for a few days, plus feed unlimited grass hay, and see how he does. Here's some good info on what the different rabbit poops look like. Be warned, these are pics of good and bad rabbit poop.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/drop/Drp_en.htm

Do you feed limited pellets?

 

[Kyva]

Yeah, I only give him about 1/4 a cup per day. One half in the morning, then in the evening either from my hand or a treat-ball I made for him.

Problem is, the food they sent me home with is actually meant for chinchillas, or at least the animal that's on the bags (what they had him on apparently). I am about to get some actual food for him, but I wanted to wait until he was comfortable before pushing new food on him.

The pellets are 14 % protein, and have the same mix you'd want for a rabbit (nothing bad like corn). But the main thing I make sure he eats is his Timothy hay (oxbow).

I'm still watching his poos. His territorial dropping tonight are normal. I'll have to wait a bit to see if some of his poos are still slightly smaller (maybe 3/4 the size of normal) or if they're all the usual.

Thank you for the link, JBun. I really appreciate it.

 

[JBun]

His poops and behavior is sounding pretty normal to me. It could be that the chinchilla food has something in it that may be causing the gurgling stomach. What brand of food is it?

 

[Kyva]

The brand is... *goes to check* Zupreen Nature's Promise Timothy naturals (with added vitamins and minerals). Problem is, it says it's premium food for adult chinchillas. I didn't even notice the food until the hubby pointed it out, but then I remembered what folks say on here about using whatever food the bun was on before bringing it home.

Hubby is going to get Oxbow pellets tomorrow so we can start transitioning.

On the upside, I just gave him a new boxful of hay (I use a box with a hole cut in it for my hay) and he's going to town on it. His tummy still gurgles, but whatever was making him a little funny earlier seems to have passed.

He also just pooed for me again and they look pretty regular.

Perhaps I was just an over-worried mommy, but I suppose that's better than not taking notice at all, huh?

Thank you all again for helping me tonight. I do want to get him off these pellets ASAP just in case. I know the woman who helped me when I got Cucumber was confused when we went to get the food. Her confusion was about the price. I didn't even think to check what it was intended for.

When it comes to switching from one pellet to the other, I assume you do it over a few week's time? The last thing I want to do is to stress his system.

 

[missyscove]

Borborygmi (gut sounds) are caused by a fluid-air interface, so excess gut sounds can be a sign of excess gas. If it were my bun, I'd give him some simethicone (it can't really hurt, but it might help).
Ideally you'd spend at least a week transitioning pellets.

 

[JBun]

Looking at the ingredients, I didn't see anything all that different from rabbit food. The vitamins and mineral amounts might differ slightly, and it does have corn product in it(in the label that I looked at), but some rabbit foods do as well(I like to avoid it though).

You're right though, to not switch foods suddenly, as that can lead to digestive upset. Do you feel like the gurgling is loud gurgling and that it doesn't seem normal? It still might be a good idea to decrease the pellet amount with it being chinchilla food and having the gurgling stomach. If he's eating hay really good, I would probably cut it in half or eliminate altogether(if you are getting him rabbit food in the next few days), in case the stomach gurgling is being caused by the pellets.

Your little guy is about 12 weeks old, right? So you will want an alfalfa based pellet to feed until he is full grown. You do want to slowly transition over 2-3 weeks. I start with a really small amount, like a pinch of new pellets mixed in with the old ones, for the first couple days, and I make sure the poops stay normal. Then if they do, I gradually increase the amount each day, like 1/2-1tsp(decrease the same amount of the old pellets), and just keep an eye on the poops. For a young rabbit, I found it was best to feed them a little less than unlimited. Because they are growing, they need the extra protein and nutrition, but unlimited seemed to cause soft poop in some of my babies, so I fed them enough pellets that they would run out of them about 3 hours before the next feeding, and I fed twice a day, or I decreased the pellet amount until the soft poops went away. I was feeding about 3/8 cup a day while they were growing, and that is for a dwarf breed that stays under 3 lbs. Then they would snack on hay until I fed pellets again.

I think we are all a little overly worried bunny mommy and daddy's So yeah, much better to take notice something might not be right, than to be clueless that something is wrong.

 

[Kyva]

Thank you so much again, JBun for the info. I'll tell the hubby to get alfalfa based. It's what he was thinking of getting anyway, but I told him we should probably stay on the timothy hay. Yes, Cucumber is around 12 weeks old now, and I swear he grew in the last week. He looks a lot bigger in his litter box than I remember.

It's safe to remove the pellets from his diet for a day or two? I know he loves them (he even licks up the dust in his bowl) but I mostly want to make sure it's safe. He likes his hay, but only if it's right out of the bag. I have a picky bun And if the hay is not in the box I made, and he pulled it into his litter? Forget it.

I love the bits of personality I keep seeing from him. Is 3 months too early for him to get hormones involved? I still don't see testes, but every now and then, he has a skunky smell.

ETA: he's still chowing down on his hay and seems to have a decent amount of poo. There are still tummy gurgles, but maybe they've always been there and I just didn't notice.

 

[JBun]

You're ok feeding timothy hay, as long as you are giving an alfalfa based pellet. I feel that alfalfa hay and an alfalfa based pellet, is overkill. Plus it can make for a picky rabbit that won't want to switch over to grass hay as an adult, and some rabbits can also be sensitive to having so much alfalfa, and it can cause digestive problems for them. I fed my babies timothy hay and alfalfa pellets, and they did just fine on them. They do grow really fast though, but 12 weeks is the age where the growth rate starts to slow down a little.

Rabbits can do just fine on hay for a little while. Sometimes it is something that is needed when a rabbit is having digestive problems. But he would be fine without pellets for a couple days, if it's something that you feel like you need to do. Or you could still just give him a tiny bit as a treat, as you are getting him started on his new pellets.

3 months is about when the hormones start to kick in. So that's normal. And the skunky smell is the scent glands. They are located in the fold of skin on each side, between the genitals and the anus. They can get plugged up with wax and can get extra smelly, and would need to be cleaned. But it is also used in scent marking, so that will also get better when he is old enough to get neutered.

You'll start to get used to what is normal for your little guy, and what isn't, as he is with you longer. It is a little tricky, when a rabbit is first new, to know what isn't normal for them.

 

[Kyva]

Thanks so much

Okay, so alfalfa is good for him for a while then. Good to know. He seems to be doing better this morning. I'm not giving him pellets today, but he's fine with it. He's been eating his hay, but he is picky about it. If it sits too long (a few hours) he prefers new from the bag.

I was sitting near his cage earlier and opened the bay of hay, and he sat in my lap, anxiously waiting for the fresh sprigs.

Okay, I figured the smell was hormones. It isn't all the time, just every now and again.

Thank you again for all of this. I never knew about most of these things with my last rabbit, so I'm super observant right now.