Gotta Bun-Bun Problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Bun~Bun

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I'm soooooooooo glad I joined here.
My Bun has thickish white pee!! I heard it looks like that from salt,which I heard was O.K., but now I know it could be kidney stones orsludge!! That's probably why he wimpers when he cleans him self. Whatcould be the cause?! WHAT CAN I DO?!?!?!?!?!
Please help!!!!:(
 

HoneyPot

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Is it thick and white all the time?And is it THICK like toothpaste or just liquid and white? Watch himwhen he pees - is it hard for him to pee? Or does he whimper when he ispeeing? Does he pee a good amount or does he just drip alittle bit when he tries to pee?

The solution here is probably a vet visit...

Are you feeding him foods with a lot of calcium? Cut back on that if you do...

I would take away the salt lick and see as well - what kind of food do you give him?


Foods with calcium: http://www.anapsid.org/iguana/cal_ox.html

___________
Nadia

 

naturestee

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Yes, if it's thick like toothpaste then Bun-bunshould go to a vet. Urine that is cloudy and leaves a whiteresidue but is not thick is okay, as long as it's not constant.

Sometimes sludge is triggered by a bladder infection (or causes one),so if you go to the vet make sure they check for that too.Till then, make sure he's drinking plenty. If he usually hasa water bottle, give him a bowl too. You can addatiny bit ofvanilla extract or sugar-freePedialyte, just enough to taste a little, to encourage him to drinkmore.

If you are feeding him alfalfa pellets then you should probably switchto low-calcium timothy pellets. Veggies do not have nearly asmuch calcium as alfalfa pellets and don't normally have to be limitedunless the rabbit is really sensitive. Plus, if not enoughcalcium is provided some rabbits will pull it out of their bones andstill have sludge anyway.

http://www.ontariorabbits.org/health/healthinfo4.1.html

Check out more articles in the Rabbit Health Reference Section:

Urinary Problems
 

Bun~Bun

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Thanx, guys!!

I don't feed him any food that has calcium. I never knew pellets did.Maby the Yogurt Drops did some thing? But I rarely get those. He's beenpeeing this way since January, and I . I don't give himmany. After cleaning out his cage, I always give him somedandilions.
He pees like he would normaly, pees about the same amount,and it's not really think thick, but it's milky white andwhen it starts the dry, it looks a little gritty.
I took away his salt lick. The most thing he eats is his pellets

I'm out of money and layed off and it's extremely hard to find a jobhere. There's really little/nothing I can do, when it comes to theVet. How long does it take for kidneyinfectection/stones to become more life threatening?
Do you think I should take the pellets away and instead give him veggies? If yes, what veggies would be best?
Any thing I can do to help comfort him or help flush his system before he dies/goes to the Vet?


 

naturestee

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What pellets are you feeding him? Whatbrand and type? Check the ingredients and see if they havealfalfa. If they do, you'll want to switch to a type ofpellet that is made from timothy hay. Examples are OxbowBunny Basics/T, Kaytee Timothy Complete, and American Pet Diner makes atimothy pellet, too.
 

Bun~Bun

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The pellets I get are from my local pet store ina bin. They are from Kaytee, but I don't know the ingrediants. Rightnow, I took away his pellets and gave him some carrots. Hisurinatination is the same when it wasn't white. Yet it'sthicker, and when it starts to dry, it looks gritty. But thank heavensit's not as thick as tooth paste!! He's got plenty of water!! Maby hislarge appetite had some thing to do whith this.....

Here's a question. Can you give him cranberry juice? Like put it in a water bottle?
 

naturestee

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Your pellets are most likely made fromalfalfa. It's standard, but alfalfa pellets were designedmore for young rabbits that are still growing or arepregnant/nursing. They are often too rich for adult rabbitsand have a lot of calcium.

I recommend reading this Bunny 101 thread:

Feeding Your Rabbit

Before you remove all of Bun-bun's pellets, do some reading.You'll need to provide a minimum of 3 different green leafy veggies aday plus multiple types of hay. You will need to pay closeattention to what you feed him becauseotherwise he maynotget all the nutrients he needs. Personally, Ithink the best way to go is to switch to a timothy-based pellet andfeed that in limited amounts with tons of hay and lots of veggies,mainly the green leafy type.

Cranberry juice has lots of sugar added to it, so it probably wouldn't be very good for a rabbit.

I'm not sure what it takes for sludge to get life threatening, but itcan be uncomfortable. Rabbits in pain tend to eat less andare more likely to go into stasis. If you see him strainingto pee or he seems really uncomfortable peeing, get him to the vet asmay be unable to urinate. That is dangerous.
 

HoneyPot

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:yeahthat

Are there pellets you can buy that are not in thebin? You want to make sure you give him Timothy based pelletsinstead of the Alphalfa - that will probably help.

Do you free feed him the pellets (all he can eat)? How old is the bun?You should limit the amount of pellets he gets - but don't take themaway completely. And definately don't take them away and feedhim only arrots. Carrots have too much sugar.

The dandelions are good, also you can try some parsley, cilantro, dill..

Also what kind of hay is he eating? Change him over to Timothy Hay if you are still feeding him Alphalfa.

_______
Nadia
 

Bun~Bun

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Thanx!! I'll have to pick up that stuff tommarrow.
One thing off topic though, why does he continue to sneeze?
 

naturestee

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Bun~Bun wrote:
One thing off topic though, why does he continue to sneeze?
A. He has an infection which requires veterinary care.
B. He is sensitive to second hand smoke. I know Iam. I always had head colds and sore throats when I used towaitress. Working in the smoking section made me feel worse.
C. He's allergic to something in your house. Hay, dust, cleaners, something.
 

dootsmom

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This article was written in 2003:

http://www.wisconsinhrs.org/Articles/Pellets520Types.htm

In essense, it says that feeding rabbits alfalfa based pellets is okay.

Rabbits need calcium...their teeth are always growing. Teeth are bone,
bone is calcium. The amount of calcium in alfalfa based pellets is not
more than they need.

I feed mine Purina Mills Complete (green bag). It's not expensive and it's a good, all around, pellet.

White urine is not uncommon...rabbits do pee out the excess calcium that their
bodies don't need. However, it should not be thick....or paste like. Rabbits pee
all kinds of colors.....it depends upon what they eat.

Dandelion greens are good for removing excess calcium. Please don't stop
feeding him this.

The sneezing.....is your hay dusty? I have a few rabbits that sneeze because
they seem to be slightly allergic to the hay. You didn't sayif there was any discharge from his nose or, if his eyes seemedirritated.

What type of litter are you using? Cedar is known to cause respitory problems
and should never be used.
 

Pipp

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I think its alfalfa hay that is quite a bit morethan the required calcium, but either way, healthy bunniesdojust pee it out. I think more of an issue isthe protein and calories. If there are weight issuesespecially, no alfalfa. With the pellets, just keepan eye on the nutritional values -- protein, fiber, fat andcalcium.

It's a hotly debated topic, but the concensus seems to be that excesscalcium doesn't cause the problems, but makes them worse.Which makes sense because bladder stones are made up of calcium, aren'tthey?

Pipp has to go see a vet soon, she's been spending too much time in herlitter box, and her pee is a little TOO white and thick for myliking. It the stones do grow andblock the urinarytract, it's painful and requires surgery. :(

Thus I'm restricting her calcium until I can get anappointment. I was hoping she'd hold off until her molarsneed doing again, seeing as she reacts so badly to being put under,nice to do x-rays etc. at the same time, but not sure that will be thecase.

I thoughtdandelions were on the higher end of the calciumscale?I've been avoiding kale and dandelion forher. Unfortunately, I though collards were low in calcium,but just realized its was chard I was thinking of. (THat'safter a lot of collards).<sigh> I know for sure the lowcalcium ones are romaine lettuce, cilantro, endive, cauliflower, and Idon't think carrots were too bad. On the high scalewas spinach (although Isee different reports onthis)dandelion and kale.

I'll be checking into it, though. All info appreciated.

sas :)and pipp :brownbunny
 

Pipp

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LOL! I knew I was asking for it by puttingcarrots in there. I meant that they were just notbad as far as calcium content goes, they're stilltoo high insugar to be a regular menu item. ;)

That's the problem with juggling diets. Something that's goodfor one issue isn't good for another.

Pipp gets carrots as a treat.I'm in the minorityaround here, but personally I wouldn't give her even onecraison. It's like giving her a sugarcube.She gets carrot, apple and oats for her'goodies', and in very small amounts.

Thanks for the link (I couldn't get the other one to work), I'll check it out!

I should also mention that I think Susan Brown is of the opinion thatcalcium in raw veggies is a moot point because the water content is asbeneficial for urinary issues as the calcium is detrimental.Andthe calcium content is also watered down.(Pretty sure that's how she saw it).

Anyway, here's a calcium list from the HRS (although it differs from another one I have):

1. Summary of Calcium[/b] in Rabbits[/b], John E. Harkness (Rabbit Health News, 1994: Vol.11, p.7)

Calcium[/b] Content of Raw Vegetables

6 mg Peppers, sweet
10 mgAlfalfa sprouts
15 mgPumpkin leaves[/b][/b]
16 mgCoriander (cilantro)
18 mgChard, Swiss
19 mg Radish seed sprouts
20 mg Lettuce, Romaine (per 100g serving)
20 mg Squash, zucchini
21 mg Jerusalem artichoke
24 mg Pumpkin
26 mg Endive
26 mg Squash, summer
28 mg Asparagus
28 mg Cauliflower
28 mg Purslane
28 mg Radishes
30 mg Carrots
30 mg Egglant
32 mg Arugula
32 mg Cabbage
32 mg New Zealand spinach
34 mg Kohlrabi
38 mg Lettuce, looseleaf
39 mg Turnips
40 mg Cress, garden
40 mgWatercress
42 mg Broccoli
44 mg Celery
46 mg Beet greens
56 mg Spinach
58 mg Mustard greens
59 mg Dock
62 mg Peas, edible pod
65 mg Rutabagas
68 mg Celeriac
74 mg Chinese cabbage
78 mg Parsley
82 mg Borage
82 mg Okra
94 mg Kale
103 mg Dandelion[/b] greens
105 mg Turnip greens
137 mg Kale, Scotch
180 mg Chicory greens
218 mg Collards
309 mg Lambsquarter
315 mg Mustard spinach

per 1 cup serving, unless otherwise noted

sas :)and pipp :bunnydance:

 

dootsmom

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LOL!!! I know I either read it somewhere or saw it on Emergency Vets (Animal Planet)
where it was said that dandelion flushes out their systems & was beneficial for them.
It was last year, sometime. It acts as a diuretic and it stimulates the urinary organs.

I looked around and had a "heart attack" as I had 30+ rabbits here!!! So, they get it
3 times a week...6 pounds of it, a week, at 99 cents a pound!!

No sludge!!!

Charlotte & the 41 buns that are here now
 

Pipp

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dootsmom wrote:
LOL!!! I know I either read it somewhere or saw iton Emergency Vets (Animal Planet) where it was said that dandelionflushes out their systems & was beneficial forthem. It was last year, sometime. It actsas a diuretic and it stimulates the urinary organs. I lookedaround and had a "heart attack" as I had 30+ rabbits here!!!So, they get it 3 times a week...6 pounds of it, a week, at 99 cents apound!!
So if Pipp has a bladder infection, Dandelion is therapeutic, but ifshe has stones or sludge, it's detrimental? Why bunny slavesgo gray!!

Sounds like you're proof that the either high calcium(especiallyhigh calcium in veggies) is not the cause of thesludge. :)

And man, I've been paying almost $4 for a 'bunch' of organic reddandelion leaves that's gotta weighway less than apound. They're really healthy for all kinds of things (andeven now, the other four buns will get them, just not Pipp until I findout the source of her problem),so I've made a point of buyingthem, even though they're pricey. And of course theprice reallydrives me nuts 'cause in another month everybodyin theneighbourhood will be digging them up from their yardsand throwing them out!

sas:)andpipp :bunnydance: (anddill :brownbunny, darry and radar :toastingbunsand sherry the fosterbun :bunny24)

 

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Here's some more info...

Lowering Blood Calcium
Compiled by Kathleen Wilsbach, PhD


Although no direct scientific link between dietary calcium and anexcess amount of calcium excreted in the urine has been proven, manyveterinarians are advising clients whose rabbits have urinary/bladderproblems to decrease the amount of calcium in their rabbit's diet.

Calcium is an important mineral for bone growth and maintenance, nerveand muscle function, and blood clotting. However the minimum dailyrequirement for calcium of a medium sized rabbit is about 510milligrams. This amount of calcium is contained in less than two ouncesof commercial pellets or 1 cup of turnip greens. The percentage ofcalcium in alfalfa and clover hay is 2-5 X the amount needed for anadult nonbreeding rabbit. Grass hays have a much lower amount ofcalcium, less than half the amount found in alfalfa and clover hay.Commercial pellets provides more than enough calcium for the averagehouse rabbit and could cause a persistently elevated ("high normal")level of calcium in the blood. If the amount of calcium excreted in theurine becomes too high, problems may develop.[suP]1[/suP]
Calcium metabolism appears to be less complex in rabbits than in manymammals. For rabbits choosing a lower calcium diet can be as simple asknowing the amount of calcium contained in each food item to determineif it should be restricted or eliminated.
Alfalfa hay is extremely high in calcium and should be replaced withlower cal-cium hays such as timothy or oat hay. Fruits are low incalcium but high in sugar and should make up a very small part of thediet. Root vegetables such as carrots and radishes are low in calcium.Most greens are comparatively high in calcium but they are also a veryimportant component of a healthy rabbit diet and should not beeliminated. Broccoli flowers and stem, cilantro, dark leaf lettuce,watercress, Brussels sprouts, celery leaves, cabbage, and endive aregood choices when trying to reduce dietary calcium. Turnip greens,broccoli leaves, mustard greens, kale, and collards greens should berestricted or eliminated depending on the severity of the problem.

Links from the Resource Center:

Stones and sludge: Is too much calcium the only cause?
http://www.ontariorabbits.org/health/healthinfo4.1.html

Calcium Problems in Rabbits
http://www.houserabbit.co.uk/rwf/articles/calcium.htm

Calcium Metabolism in Rabbits
http://www.mahouserabbit.org/newsletter/calcium.asp

Calcium
http://www.carrotcafe.com/n/calcium.html

Lowering Blood Calcium
http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-5/calcium.html

 

Bun~Bun

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I think I could know the problem whith him is - Mineral Chews.
I got one for him for Christmas and one a few weeks ago.
Right now I picked him some Dandilions and hegobbled them up(He absolutly llllooooooooovveeeeessss Dandilions!!)!!Tonight is grocery shopping night, and I'm going to pick up someTimothy Hay and Paresly. Hopefully my Bun will recover from hisillnesses. He has been sneezing very rapidly(But not viontly.) today.But he still acts like a healthy Bun(Even as chubby bunny.)!! And hequite excited, yet a bit jeoulous, cause I got a new babybun!! I was getting either a dutch or holland lop, but I found apedigree Agoodie Broken. He's soooooooo kyuoot!!
Man, I whish my Digital Camra worked!! Errrrrrr!!!!!:mad:
 

FlopsnWills

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Bun~Bun wrote:
I think I could know the problem whith him is - Mineral Chews.
I got one for him for Christmas and one a few weeks ago.
Right now I picked him some Dandilions and hegobbled them up(He absolutly llllooooooooovveeeeessss Dandilions!!)!!Tonight is grocery shopping night, and I'm going to pick up someTimothy Hay and Paresly. Hopefully my Bun will recover from hisillnesses. He has been sneezing very rapidly(But not viontly.) today.But he still acts like a healthy Bun(Even as chubby bunny.)!! And hequite excited, yet a bit jeoulous, cause I got a new babybun!! I was getting either a dutch or holland lop, but I found apedigree Agoodie Broken. He's soooooooo kyuoot!!
Man, I whish my Digital Camra worked!! Errrrrrr!!!!!:mad:

bunbun, in another post, i noticed that you use clumping kitty litterwhich is the most dangerous litter to use for a rabbit. not only is thedust causing him to develop a respiratory infection, but rabbits tendto nibble on their litter and the clumping kind expands in theirstomachs and can cause death. newspaper is safe, and so are aspenshavings (pine and cedar also can cause respiratory infections)

also- if you cannot afford to bring your first rabbit to the vet, whyon earth would you buy a second baby rabbit? if your first rabbit has acontagious life threatening disease, such as pasturella, then your newone has it. i would stop getting more animals until you can take theones you have now to the vet.
 

HoneyPot

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I was going to make a similar comment on gettinga new bunny. If you can't afford to take the first one to thevet, in my opinion, you shouldn't keep getting more.

Taking a pet to the vet is a necessity for any pet owner - emergencies happen, and pets shouldn't be expendible.

____________
Nadia
 
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