Genetics Help please?

[lelanatty]

I am wondering how I can tell whether one of my does is a sable marten or a black silver marten. Is there a specific color I should breed her to to try to find out?

Her father was a REW and her mother was a black silver marten. I am absolutely sure that her mother is a black silver marten, I also own her. There is no shaded anywhere in her pedigree that I can see, but half of her mother's pedigree is missing so I can't know for sure.

I recently bred her to a black silver marten buck that has chinchilla and related colors in his background. She had one kit and it appears to be a black silver marten, but I can't be sure.

This is what raised my suspicion, when camera flash seems to tell all:

I know she is not very good, so please no type critiques.


Thank you in advance for your help!

 

[Debacus]

The sable gene has nothing to do with shaded. It is what is sitting on the C locus. Hard to say from the photo but she looks to be sable.

 

[pamnock]

Remember that silver martens "are" tan pattern chinchillas (except for the sable marten, which is a shaded tan pattern).

The combination of cchd c (black silver marten carrying c) could explain a slightly lighter color. I'm doubting it's an actual sable marten because it's so dark - cchl c "should" have produced a lighter sable color.

Debacus - Sable has everything to do with being shaded. It's cchl (shaded gene) on the C locus.



What should you breed her to? Well, like you said - her type isn't good. I wouldn't use her in a breeding program at all.

 

[Debacus]

Hi Pam, thanks for your comment, must admit had my blonde head on..I was thinking of shaded self .. goes back to sleep zzzzz

 

[pamnock]

Debacus wrote:

Hi Pam, thanks for your comment, must admit had my blonde head on..I was thinking of shaded self .. goes back to sleep zzzzz

That's ok - sometimes I make some early morning posts, look at them later, and wonder what the heck I wastalking aboutLOL

 

[lelanatty]

pamnock wrote:

What should you breed her to? Well, like you said - her type isn't good. I wouldn't use her in a breeding program at all.

That is exactly the kind of comment I was trying to avoid. Believe me I have my own justification for breeding her. All I was asking for was help with the color.

Do you know what color I can breed her to to find out if she is in fact a sable marten or a silver marten?

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

Personally? I vote seal marten. That or she sat in the sun far too long. Put her in with a rew from a siamese sable program. If you get ALL perfectly marked sable martens/smoke pearl martens, then it's a sable. If you get any blacks/blues, then she's a black silver marten (if she's a black, she COULD carry for blue/sable/smoke marten, but not the other way around.)

I agree with pam, but I do understand having personal reasons.

 

[lelanatty]

Shaded Night Rabbitry wrote:

Personally? I vote seal marten. That or she sat in the sun far too long. Put her in with a rew from a siamese sable program. If you get ALL perfectly marked sable martens/smoke pearl martens, then it's a sable. If you get any blacks/blues, then she's a black silver marten (if she's a black, she COULD carry for blue/sable/smoke marten, but not the other way around.)

I agree with pam, but I do understand having personal reasons.

Thanks. Can I borrow your REW from siamese sables? I don't have one XD just kidding. I will have to try to find one.

She actually doesn't look that fat anymore since she has had her kits. She goes back to the same lines as my buck, and the baby that she has right now looks really good. I was actually going to sell her before her baby started growing up and showing type. Now I want more babies that look like that :biggrin:

 

[leo9lionheads]

If shes truly a black silver marten then you would get chinchillas and black silver martens breeding to a rew, no black or blues as neither parent has the full color C gene...

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

leo9lionheads wrote:

If shes truly a black silver marten then you would get chinchillas and black silver martens breeding to a rew, no black or blues as neither parent has the full color C gene...

Sorry, I said black/blue as a shortcut to saying black/blue silver martens. I didn't even make the connection that someone might take it as black/blue self. LOL

Breeding to a REW from a sable program, however, shouldn't give you any chinchillas. No where to pull the agouti gene from.


______________


LOL, too bad Lela. I have a hella cute REW junior boy that needs a new home. No one's going to want a rew buck around here, so he might get sent off to the magician man. =/

 

[lelanatty]

Shaded Night Rabbitry wrote:

LOL, too bad Lela. I have a hella cute REW junior boy that needs a new home. No one's going to want a rew buck around here, so he might get sent off to the magician man. =/

Aww, if only if only there was a way to transport bunnies easily from one place to another...

 

[Jaded]

Lela, what doe is this?

 

[lelanatty]

T.A Bunnies wrote:

Lela, what doe is this?

This is Santee. She is the daughter of Tootsie roll. I got her when she was a baby and let her grow out and that is what she looked like before I bred her.

 

[Jaded]

She looks like a sable Martin or a otter Martin to me, I think that if she was a Black Silver Marten she would be darker like Tootsie Roll & Martin.

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

"otter marten" isn't really... a.... color? XD

I still vote seal. I swear I see shading in there.

 

[lelanatty]

Shaded Night Rabbitry wrote:

I still vote seal. I swear I see shading in there.

That was my suspicion as well. You can't really see that shading on her unless the camera flash exposes it like it did in that picture.

T.A Bunnies wrote:

She looks like a sable Martin or a otter Martin to me, I think that if she was a Black Silver Marten she would be darker like Tootsie Roll & Martin.

What is an otter marten? I have never heard of that. :confused2:

 

[Jaded]

I was meaning chocolate otter.

 

[TCRabbitry]

If you were meaning chocolate otter, why didn't you just say chocolate otter? Otter martin doesn't make any sense, being as they are two different colors, one is a chestnut version and one is a chin version.

This specific rabbit is a martin and not an otter. I agree that it is probably a seal martin...

 

[Jaded]

If you didnt realize that im not in the USA, and in my country we have different names for colors.
I know its confussing...

 

[lelanatty]

T.A Bunnies wrote:

I was meaning chocolate otter.

Oh ok, I see. But yeah she is definitely not a chocolate otter. There isn't any way that she could be a chocolate silver arten either even though I wish I could have a chocoate silver marten :biggrin2: