Fish Help??

Rabbits Online Forum

Help Support Rabbits Online Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Top fin takes out chlorine chloramine heavy metals, etc etc. Dont need to spend the extra money for a brand name water conditioner if you dont have too. Save that money for the other stuff ;) Top Fin is just Petsmarts house brand so they product TONS of the stuff so they can sell it WAY cheaper. Now there are alot of products out there that are designed to remove ammonia or treat this or that, that also act as water conditioners. Really you just need something that removes the bad stuff and helps "protect" your fishies. Which they all do. Haven't seen a single "water conditioner" on a pet store shelf around here that doesnt take out Chlorine, chloramine, heavy metals, protects, etc....
 
Good to know they all work basically the same. The fish store I went to sold mostly API when I got started so I have stuck with the same things. I figure if it isn't broke then don't fix it. :)
 
Jynxie wrote:
With mollies... I believe you can add a bit of salt - but I'd double check first, but I do believe they enjoy some aquarium salt in their water.

This is correct.




Bunnylova4eva wrote:
well all today he's been like this when he does come out(and last night) I don't know why he thinks the thermometer is so great...? :

15287_011508_080000000.jpg

You do not have enough gravel in their unless it is just the pic. For a 10 gal, you want 15 pounds of gravel. The problem with a 10 gallon, or even a 20 gallon, is that they are so small that they become prone to water parameter fluctuations that are often enough to cause disease and/or kill the fish outright. If the filter is a Top Fin with carbon cartridges, it is worth noting that: 1) carbon removes any added medication almost immediately and also removes any trace elements that are beneficial to the fish, and 2) that particular filter is a weak model in that it only provides mechanical and chemical filtration, where as other hang-on-the-back models, such as the AquaClear, provides biological filtration as well. Biological filtration is a billion times more important than the other two.





Nancy McClelland wrote:
When you add water, did you also ad something to neutralize chlorine/chloramine? The city changed the chemicals in the water and didn't notify the public for a month--I lost all of my Betas.

When I first started I made this same mistake. It is worth outright noting for others that while letting water sit or heavy aeration neutralizes chlorine, it will not break the chloramine bond. Furthermore, not all dechlorinators will break this bond either and so the chemical needs to explicitly say 'neutralizes chlorine AND chloramine'. Many cities will change up chemicals to 'shock' pathogens, often without public notice. Most (but not all) modern dechlorinators wil break the chloramine bond.





Watermelons wrote:
Most large pet stores will test your water for free as often as you want. Save your money.
May not be anything wrong with your tank or the water. Might just be the fish.

Generally if something is wrong with the fish, it has to do with, or began with, the water. I would say 98% of ill health starts as stress caused from an issue with water parameters. I would not rely on these stores to do testing as a water test is essentially a blood test for fish. I managed one once for a very short period of time and quit because of the horrific conditions fish were exposed to due to ignorance on behalf of the employees. Later I went to become a published writer on fish health and disease. Most people at those pet stores do not know how to properly test tank water. Furthermore, the equipment they have is often tainted and their disease treatments kill the fish more often than the disease. A $30 Master Test Kit can save you hundreds of dollars of lost fish and endless grief. Every fish owner needs a test kit for the basics at least:
-ammonia
-nitrite
-nitrate
-pH






OP, a lot of things affect fish health…just a few questions in determining tank/fish health would be:
-What is the temp and temp flux?
-What is the heater set at?
-What are ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate readings? (the numbers)
-What is the pH and water hardness level?
-When was the last time you introduced a new fish?
-Do you use any type of frozen or live food other than pellets/wafers/flakes?
-Do you have the ability to isolate this fish in a sick tank?
-Are you using carbon on your filter?
-Are you feeding a good food like New Life Spectrum PELLETS (not flakes)?

If you have any other fish than mollies, I would not add salt as it can cause long-term organ damage. Its effectiveness as a 'tonic' and 'disease treatment' is minimal at best. As noted, zebra danios are a good way to go…HOWEVER, if the fish that were in your tank died of a disease, then if you add more fish they will likely contract the same thing. Therefore, letting the tank sit while the sick fish heal or, ideally if all fish died, disinfecting it is worthwhile.

There are two types of fish commonly called glow fish. The ones which are danios and glow in the dark are not injected; they are actually known by the brand name GloFish. The ones which are injected are called Glass Fish, but are commonly (incorrectly) called glowfish.

In this particular case, I do think disease may have occurred. They were susceptible to the disease likely because of an extreme temp flux. Even a small flux is enough to stress even hardy fish to the point of contracting an illness. For any tropical fish, a heater is a must.

As far as water changes, as noted you need to do closer to weekly, especially with a smaller tank like a 10 gal. However, with only a few fish, 2-3 weeks should be fine if your water parameters are good. Unless you have live plants, the only way to remove nitrates is via a water change and so 'matured' tanks need to monitor nitrates the closest. Again, this goes back to the importance of having a test kit.

In order to master the art of fishkeeping, it is important to understand beyond the dynamics behind just the fish. Fish keeping is not as much about keeping fish as it is keeping trillions of bacteria that provide a fish the conditions needed to live and thrive. The nitrogen cycle is only part of this complex relationship. An understanding of the biological filter and what constitutes sufficient biological filtration, as well as bio-load thresholds, is critical. Books on fish keeping and fish health are worth there weight in gold, as they provide care and diagnosis guidelines.

Hope this helps.
 
Very informative NickZac. How do you know so much about fish?

I have a test kit. There is a way to get the nitrates without doing water changes. There is a bottle of Amquel+ plus, it removes nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, chloramines, and chlorine. It is for freshwater and saltwater.
 
Sweetie wrote:
Very informative NickZac. How do you know so much about fish?

I have a test kit. There is a way to get the nitrates without doing water changes. There is a bottle of Amquel+ plus, it removes nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, chloramines, and chlorine. It is for freshwater and saltwater.


Thanks. I had a chance to study with and learn from a lady who was one of the best in the business. I also learned a lot from a fish doctor (yes, they do exist) and a fish pharmacist (I must really sound like a nerd now!!). For a while I was breeding a variety of loaches and plecos, as well as discus. Many of the plecos I bred were $50+ per fish and discus were even more. The exotic plecs can be delicate and discus are perhaps the most delicate of all softwater fish. Obviously, as a business owner you want to make sure you don't lose the stock and also that your fishies do well, and so learning about the most current medications and treatment protocols seemed important and so I spent a few years learning as much as possible. Eventually, I went on to have multiple articles published in a few different mags and sites (two without my authorization).
 
Cool! I have been reading up on clown loaches and their care. I love them and they get huge, I saw a big one at Farmland when they had a huge fishtank with all the big fish in it. They still have that big fishtank but not the big clown loach anymore.
 
Loches, plecs, and discus are my favorite fish. They are all so, so personable. I had a big tank of fish by my bed with 10 massive clowns (among others) and I would constantly watch them play games and do things that seem way beyond what an average person would think a fish can do. They are incredibly personable fish...especially the big ones as I swear they literally all developed a unique personality. I'd watch them for hours given how much they move around...my bunny would watch the tank as well! I miss my loaches so much, but I was physically unable to provide them with the care they deserved and so they needed to go to a loving home that could give them that care :(
 
WOW! How big of a fishtank would I need for a full grown clown loach? I know I have a while yet before I have to get a bigger tank but it will be good to know so that I can save up for it and get it when needed.
 
Oh and clown loaches are my favorite fish. I also like bettas. I have two of them, they are in separate tanks, I have a halfmoon and a doubletail betta.
 
NickZac wrote:
Bunnylova4eva wrote:
well all today he's been like this when he does come out(and last night) I don't know why he thinks the thermometer is so great...? :

15287_011508_080000000.jpg
You do not have enough gravel in their unless it is just the pic. For a 10 gal, you want 15 pounds of gravel. The problem with a 10 gallon, or even a 20 gallon, is that they are so small that they become prone to water parameter fluctuations that are often enough to cause disease and/or kill the fish outright. If the filter is a Top Fin with carbon cartridges, it is worth noting that: 1) carbon removes any added medication almost immediately and also removes any trace elements that are beneficial to the fish, and 2) that particular filter is a weak model in that it only provides mechanical and chemical filtration, where as other hang-on-the-back models, such as the AquaClear, provides biological filtration as well. Biological filtration is a billion times more important than the other two.
I do have more gravel I can add-I didn't realize how necesary it was. No, the filter isn't Top Fin. I do forget the exact brand. I'll have to go back and look it up. I got it several years back. It does have the carbon filters. I also have a small undergravel filter in there as well from another tank, which I recently added.
Nancy McClelland wrote:
When you add water, did you also ad something to neutralize chlorine/chloramine? The city changed the chemicals in the water and didn't notify the public for a month--I lost all of my Betas.
When I first started I made this same mistake. It is worth outright noting for others that while letting water sit or heavy aeration neutralizes chlorine, it will not break the chloramine bond. Furthermore, not all dechlorinators will break this bond either and so the chemical needs to explicitly say 'neutralizes chlorine AND chloramine'. Many cities will change up chemicals to 'shock' pathogens, often without public notice. Most (but not all) modern dechlorinators wil break the chloramine bond.
Yes, the declorinator does say it neutralizes chlorine and chloramine.

Watermelons wrote:
Most large pet stores will test your water for free as often as you want. Save your money.
May not be anything wrong with your tank or the water. Might just be the fish.
Generally if something is wrong with the fish, it has to do with, or began with, the water. I would say 98% of ill health starts as stress caused from an issue with water parameters. I would not rely on these stores to do testing as a water test is essentially a blood test for fish. I managed one once for a very short period of time and quit because of the horrific conditions fish were exposed to due to ignorance on behalf of the employees. Later I went to become a published writer on fish health and disease. Most people at those pet stores do not know how to properly test tank water. Furthermore, the equipment they have is often tainted and their disease treatments kill the fish more often than the disease. A $30 Master Test Kit can save you hundreds of dollars of lost fish and endless grief. Every fish owner needs a test kit for the basics at least:
-ammonia
-nitrite
-nitrate
-pH
I haven't bought the kit yet-I need to go. Haven't been to the pet store in a while, but I do realize its very important. I thought this fish was about to die, but it keeps hanging on and as of this evening is looking much better. I'm just waiting for the water to come to room temp. before changing some.
OP, a lot of things affect fish health…just a few questions in determining tank/fish health would be:
-What is the temp and temp flux? 74 but usually 72 in the earlymornings.
-What is the heater set at? I don't have a heater currently. Still investigating.
-What are ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate readings? (the numbers) ? Not sure, I just know they said it was fine. I can't know the exact readings until I get a test kit.
-What is the pH and water hardness level? Again, same as the above. I had it tested though 2 days apart buy them and after a water change it was in normal range.
-When was the last time you introduced a new fish? When I got this guy, several weeks back.
-Do you use any type of frozen or live food other than pellets/wafers/flakes? I feed them (him) TetraColor flakes
-Do you have the ability to isolate this fish in a sick tank? Yes, but I curently have no other fish in this tank.
-Are you using carbon on your filter? Yes
-Are you feeding a good food like New Life Spectrum PELLETS (not flakes)? I've tried pellets and they wouldn't touch them-just spit them out every time.


In order to master the art of fishkeeping, it is important to understand beyond the dynamics behind just the fish. Fish keeping is not as much about keeping fish as it is keeping trillions of bacteria that provide a fish the conditions needed to live and thrive. The nitrogen cycle is only part of this complex relationship. An understanding of the biological filter and what constitutes sufficient biological filtration, as well as bio-load thresholds, is critical. Books on fish keeping and fish health are worth there weight in gold, as they provide care and diagnosis guidelines.

Hope this helps.
Thanks sooo much for all your help and time spent typing this up-it makes things alot clearer for me. I'd like to learn as much as possible to keep my pets as happy and healthy as possible. :biggrin2:
 
Sweetie wrote:
WOW! How big of a fishtank would I need for a full grown clown loach? I know I have a while yet before I have to get a bigger tank but it will be good to know so that I can save up for it and get it when needed.

Honestly, for a full grown loach you want a minimum of 75 gallons according to literature but realistically a 100+ is better as the 75 isn't as wide as many 10in+ loaches would prefer. Keep in mind the larger the tank that they live in the faster they will grow (although whether in a small or massive tank, they are slow growers none-the-less). My favorite display size in that ballpark is the 135 gallon Oceanic. When they start getting really big, you may want to consider a canister filter such as an Eheim, Fluval or Rena for extra biological filtration. I would generally run between 1-3 on a tank and only one, if any, would have any filter pads. The rest would be filled with ceramic media so that nitrifying bacteria could grow on it. A wet/dry sump also works well for this purpose. Then I would use an Aquaclear hang on the back filled to the brim with filter pads for the mechanical filtration aspect. However, I had a ton of fish in those. For most 100s, a single canister and HOB or 2 canisters is plenty. The canisters are also nice as they provide strong water circulation, which loaches LOVE! (they will literally go up to the filter return and swim 'against the current' sometimes for hours at a time!) The other advantage of a canister is if for some reason when you clean the tank you kill off too much of the good bacteria in the gravel, then the good bacteria in the canister filter will prevent an ammonia spike. They help keep water parameters much more stable than a hang-on filter alone. If you run a canister on your current tank for a few months before going to a new tank, then the canister will have enough bacteria in it to prevent a massive ammonia spike when you move everything to the new tank (you will still have a small ammonia increase but it won't be bad if you keep feeding low).

A lot of people think this is expensive but it is easy to find $1,000+ set ups with the tanks, stands, lights, sumps, etc. for a few hundred bucks or even free on Craigslist (moving sales and people need money or can't afford their fish with the economy). The 100+ gallon tanks also provide water parameter stability which is excellent and maintenance is actually less than a 55 (provided they are stocked the same). If you did go to that size, I would even consider treating yourself to a few other loaches, as many varying loach types do well together, and the more you have the more social they will be. Yoyo loaches are as amusing as clown loaches, and Zebras can be a lot of fun too. What always made me laugh is every time a tank had 8 or more loaches in it and once they became used to each other, they would all 'congregate' together in spaces that simply would seem impossible for all of them to fit inside of. I would put a piece of PVC pipe in that was less than a foot long and 20+ 4 inch loaches would just 'chill' inside of it!


I also always kept a few Angelicus with my Yoyos and Clowns as they always make a tank look 'vibrant'

image_medium
 
Bunnylova4eva wrote:
Thanks sooo much for all your help and time spent typing this up-it makes things alot clearer for me.  I'd like to learn as much as possible to keep my pets as happy and healthy as possible. :biggrin2:

My pleasure! If you ever have any questions, feel free to ask.

If you are interested, this is one of my favorite keeping books that covers most of the basics.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0793821010/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Cool I will consider getting a bigger tank then and more loaches. Can I get more clown loaches for the 55 gallon tank that I have, or should I wait? Of course this will be when I have the money to get them, because here they cost about $30 for a big one and they are hard to find.
 
NickZac wrote:
There are two types of fish commonly called glow fish. The ones which are danios and glow in the dark are not injected; they are actually known by the brand name GloFish. The ones which are injected are called Glass Fish, but are commonly (incorrectly) called glowfish.


Ooooh I didn't know there was a danio that glowed in the dark naturally. I have heard of the glass fish and the white skirt tetras that are also injected with dye. I always tried to get people to not buy those when I worked in a fish pet store. Sadly tho, a lot of people didn't care.



Personally I always like the skirts without the dye. I liked having them, hardy little fish and personable. Tho the pencil fish I have now are something new.



Ooooh I love Discus. I am not into the hobby as much as I used to. I ended up getting into reptiles.
 
MagPie wrote:
NickZac wrote:
There are two types of fish commonly called glow fish. The ones which are danios and glow in the dark are not injected; they are actually known by the brand name GloFish. The ones which are injected are called Glass Fish, but are commonly (incorrectly) called glowfish.
 

Ooooh I didn't know there was a danio that glowed in the dark naturally.  I have heard of the glass fish and the white skirt tetras that are also injected with dye.  I always tried to get people to not buy those when I worked in a fish pet store.  Sadly tho, a lot of people didn't care.

 

Personally I always like the skirts without the dye.  I liked having them, hardy little fish and personable.  Tho the pencil fish I have now are something new.

 

Ooooh I love Discus.  I am not into the hobby as much as I used to.  I ended up getting into reptiles.

GloFish are genetically modified where as 'painted' glass fish are forcibly injected with a syring. Only about 5% of glass fish survive, if that.
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/beginnerinfo/a/paintedfish.htm
 

Latest posts

Back
Top