E Cunic. meds

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by Erint1971, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. Aug 17, 2017 #1

    Erint1971

    Erint1971

    Erint1971

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    About a month ago I posted about my son's dwarf rabbit being diagnosed with e cunic. through a blood test back in March. I was inquiring about the meds out there & particularly panacur, which I think you can get online. Someone responded & asked me to list all the meds she has been on or is on & the dosage. I did that, but have not gotten a response when doing so. Below is the meds. info. Thank you.



    When we first brought the rabbit to the emergency vet she was put on several meds for her head tilt, dizziness, etc. Some of those were meclizine, flexeril, zenequin and meloxicam. She is now only on ponazuril (marquis) daily. This is the expensive med that comes in a 150mg/ml tube which lasts about a month and a half. When I inquired about another med for her, the vet said no. He even told us to increase the daily amount she gets since her titers have gone up. We have not done that & actually have just been giving her the meds every 2-3 days. If panacur is for helping e cunic. then maybe I can just give that? It was also mentioned to get ahold of the manufacturer of the med. she is on now, but I would not know how to find them. Any info. would be appreciated.
     
  2. Aug 17, 2017 #2

    JBun

    JBun

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    Panacur is actually the usual med that is used to treat EC, and this is based upon a study that was done that showed it was effective(3rd link below). I have only read in a few articles online, that ponzuril might possibly be effective, but have never seen any scientific data to back that up. So I would want the vet to explain to me what evidence there is that ponzuril is effective against EC, to justify continuing to use such an expensive med. And I would only continue to do it if it was short term(less than one month) and produced positive results in curing the EC. After all, if it truly is such a good med against EC, then it should cure the disease and shouldn't need to be used long term. Otherwise I don't really see the point of using an expensive med, particularly long term, when there is no proof it's even effective, especially considering there is a low cost med out there(fenbendazole) that has been shown to be at least somewhat effective against EC. Personally I would just stick with the Panacur/Safeguard(fenbendazole). It's what is commonly used to treat EC and has scientific data to back up it's effectiveness.

    I don't have access to vet resources, but from what I do have access to online, I have never come across any study or data testing ponzuril's effectiveness against EC. In fact, I have just been looking at a study that was done(first link below) that showed toltrazuril(which ponzuril is a metabolite of) wasn't effective for controlling EC in the in vitro experiment conducted, where as other benzimidazole drugs similar to fenbendazole, were effective in controlling the EC growth. This leads me to believe that all this talk of ponzuril possibly being an effective EC treatment, is all speculation with nothing to back it up, and in fact could be a huge waste of effort and money for the owners that are recommended to try it by their vet. Just based on my own research and knowledge of the subject, if it were me I would stick with the well known and tested EC treatment, using fenbendazole(Panacur, Safeguard). There is just no proof that I can see, that ponzuril has any effect on EC at all.
    http://aac.asm.org/content/39/6/1265.full.pdf
    http://www.animalia.be/files/article_14//proceedings-canifelis-2012.pdf (page 83)
    http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Paper/fenbendazole.pdf

    If you did want to continue using the marquis and if you are buying it from the vet, that is going to bump up the cost significantly. It would be cheaper for you to get the marquis online and have the vet call the scrip in, but even then it's still an expensive med(which I still believe is just a waste to even try this med). Some vets are resistant to this as they make a lot of money from you buying meds from them, but there is nothing wrong with you requesting a prescription to be called in(or the website people call the vet to authorize the scrip), and the vet should do it. Not saying your vet is dishonest, but I know some vets do try and push owners to buy expensive meds from them, so I would also wonder if this might be why the marquis is being pushed as the treatment instead of the panacur. Not all vets are like this, but I have experienced it myself, so know it can happen.

    If it were me, I would stick with fenbendazole, which you can get online as Safeguard goat wormer for $25 for a 125 ml bottle, which would last a long time and is a much cheaper treatment for EC.
     
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  3. Aug 17, 2017 #3

    Erint1971

    Erint1971

    Erint1971

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    Thank you for all of the info. I really appreciate it. If I was to purchase the panacur, where would you recommend purchasing it from? What would be the dosing on it & how often?
     
  4. Aug 18, 2017 #4

    JBun

    JBun

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    Jenny - Health & Wellness Mod Staff Member

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    Safeguard goat dewormer is equivalent to Panacur. Fenbendazole is the active ingredient in both and the concentration is 100mg/ml. There are multiple online stores that carry it, including amazon, or for a bit more you may be able to find it at a local farm/feed store. Dosage 20mg/kg once a day. Treatment info in link. Just note that bone marrow problems can sometimes occur with fenbendazole treatment.
    http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Encephalitozoonosis.htm

    Additional info on EC treatments.
    http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/educat...rticles/e-cuniculi-treatment-success-stories/
     
  5. Aug 19, 2017 #5

    Erint1971

    Erint1971

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    I thought I had read elsewhere at one point that panacur was given for a certain amount of days in a row every couple months or so rather than a daily medication.
     
  6. Aug 19, 2017 #6

    Watermelons

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    Standard deworming (what youre describing) is very different then EC treatment.
     
  7. Aug 19, 2017 #7

    RavenousDragon

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    When you are treating for EC (or any deworming technically) please be aware that resistance can occur. So if you are noticing signs of EC again and you are still treating you may need to go back on some expensive meds. Depending on your location, lots of parasites are already resistant to panacur (or none are, it just sort of depends). Hopefully, resistance is never the case and you won't need to know any of this! Good luck!!
     
  8. Aug 20, 2017 #8

    Erint1971

    Erint1971

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    She has not had any symptoms of EC since back in March when we first took her to the vet. She was put on meds immediately and within about 2 weeks, all the symptoms were gone.
     
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  9. Sep 13, 2017 #9

    Erint1971

    Erint1971

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    My husband spoke to our vet today in regards to medicine for my son's rabbit. We ran out of Ponazuril and told him we would like to give her something else. We have great faith in him as he is very experienced with rabbits. He can answer any question about rabbits and has so much up to date info. My husband brought up the names of the other meds mentioned in previous posts. He said Fenbendazole (Panacur) is old school medicine and was given when they thought EC was caused by worms. He said we know it is not & it can cause harm to bone marrow. The next med. used was Ponazuril and was given when they thought EC was caused by a protozoa. Now they believe though EC is caused by a fungus, but there is no med. to treat that yet. My son's rabbit has had absolutely no symptoms since March. We took her to the vet the first day she showed symptoms. That night she was started on a few meds to help head tilt, dizziness & eye movement. All of those stopped in about a week or so. After 30 days she was started on Ponazuril. We usually gave it to her every 2-3 days. We even did 6 days while on vacation. We think we are just going to see how she does. Perhaps she has built up an immunity since we caught EC on the day it started & meds were started that day. Has anyone heard of a rabbit or had one that had EC and they did fine after several months of treatment? Thoughts???
     
  10. Sep 13, 2017 #10

    RavenousDragon

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    I haven't herd of the fungus thing (I'm not as up to date as I should be this month on new veterinary research though).

    I DO know that it can kind of go into remission in many rabbits. She will probably have 'flare ups' all of her life- for which she will need medication. But when she is acting/being normal, it's often not treated. But you will have to keep a close eye on her for any symptoms. Good luck!
     

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