Dotty has scabs on her mouth?

[mouse_chalk]

I saw something the other day, but I thought she had maybe just been messy with her pellets or something. But earlier, I was cuddling her and noticed that either side of her mouth, she has some weird looking scabs. It's hard to describe, but sort of small little scabby areas of skin, and there's a bit of fur loss there as well.

I will try and get a picture but now that she's not sick anymore she doesn't like being turned on her back, so it may be tricky.

There's no blood or anything there- it doesn't look like a cut or anything- it would be strange as well for it to be on both sides of her mouth?

When we first got her she was treated with Ivermectin (I forget the brand name of the stuff we used now) for fur mites, but that cleared up after the treatment and was only ever 'dandruff' on the back of her neck. This is completely different looking. I did notice her carefully scratching there earlier as well, although it doesn't seem to be painful, and she's still eating, pooping perfectly normally as well.


I have made a vet's appt for tomorrow afternoon, but just wondered if anyone has any ideas in the meantime?

:?

Thanks!

 

[tonyshuman]

Could she be drooling there? That could cause fur loss, and then maybe the skin could get chapped. It could of course be mites as well, but with it being near her mouth in conjunction with hair loss makes met think of drooling caused by tooth issues. It should be something the vet can figure out just by looking at her teeth and/or doing a skin scraping.

Is there any chance some other bunny could have bit her there through a gate or something? Tony did that to Frida right after we got her (now the gate is reinforced with cardboard)--bit her on the lip!

 

[Flashy]

another thought might be vent disease?

 

[mouse_chalk]

Definitely no chance of a bite- she's had no contact with the other bunnies whatsoever- when they're in the garden they're in separate pens that don't touch, and she's only been downstairs and sat with me on the sofa once- she hates it down here lol!

When she was last at the vets about a month-6 weeks ago now, the vet said she had perfectly aligned teeth... She does make a big mess when she drinks her water, her dewlap sometimes gets wet, but I don't often see her chin being wet?

The scabs, are sort of like human scabs, after a cut- sort of a cross between that and little warts or something? They're really hard to explain without a picture... I'll try and get one once the battries charge!

Vent disease- is that rabbit syphilis? How can rabbits catch that? Is it spread from one to another or can anybun get it?

It's weird.... Definitely wasn't there a week ago either :expressionless


Thanks guys!

 

[Flashy]

Vent Disease. I don't kno muc about it Jen sorry. I know that Polly's Nib's had a horrible face with his evtn disease., I think it's mostly passed during breeding, but can also go from mum to kits at birth, but don't hold me to that. I also don't know what can trigger an out break.

It's always worth having teeth checked too.

Also, I wonder if maybe she has been chewing somewhere? Or maybe has some sort of mouth injury causing potential drooling?

 

[mouse_chalk]

Ok, I just scared myself looking at all the pictures in those links! :nerves1

I'm going to go and try to get a picture of Dotty's mouth. Wish me luck lol.

It doesn't look like any of the pictures of rabbit syphilis that I've seen, it's hard to describe, but it's right on each corner of her lips- like in the corner of her 'smile' if she were to have one (and she does actually- I've seen her smile!)

Her genitals looked ok yesterday- I always check their bums as I bring them in from the garden in case of poopy butt, paranoia over fly strike etc and it looked ok, but I'll have another look now.

She's also not had any contact with any other rabbits for months now- she's nearly 10 months? Obviously there's our other bunnies who live in the same house but she's had no phyisical contact with them. Does anyone know if it's possible she caught it or something before we got her and it's only just showing now?

:?

 

[naturestee]

She could have gotten syphilis from her mother and it's been asymptomatic till now. Your vet should be able to do a culture to check. It's usually swellings or scabs on face or genitals but not necessarily on both areas.

Do you remember Jazzy and her babies? They all had syphilis. Jazzy didn't have any symptoms. Zappa was the only one that got sick in the first litter. We weren't sure what it was but it didn't respond to sulfa drugs and responded well to injected penicillin (standard syphilis treatment). Two babies in the second litter got sick and that's when we were able to confirm the diagnosis. Jazzy and all of the babies, plus the group of rabbits she had been living with previously, were all treated. None of Jazzy's companion rabbits had any symptoms either. This is pretty common.

Rabbits syphilis can not infect other animals, including humans. It's usually easily treated.

I'm actually hoping that's all it is because it's easy to treat!

 

[tonyshuman]

When you say they are a bit warty looking that makes me think vent disease too. Like Naturestee said, it can remain hidden and she may have gotten it from her mom or other rabbits she was housed with a long time ago. At least you'll have all sorts of options to ask your vet about!

 

[mouse_chalk]

Eek... Getting penicillin from our vets won't be fun if it is syphilis :s lovely as they are they like baytril a bit too much

I did manage to get some good pictures but I didn't have time to upload them before I have been whisked away on a mystery date. We are currently in Wales and I have no idea where we are going! I'll post them when I get back!

The pictures I saw of vent disease it looked to be more around the nose but this is right on the corners of her mouth. Although maybe they were more advanced cases? But I saw that one of her nostrils was wet with a bit of brown stuff on it :so I got a pic of that too...

My poor Dotters!I don't know how I missed it... It's just one thing after another with our bunnies!

 

[Flashy]

Jen, if you think it might be that go on RU and ask about what pencillins are available in the UK and what they might suggest. Jack's Jane should have some good suggestions, and it can be worethwhile having that knowledge before going in so you know what to ask for. You can then feedback here

 

[naturestee]

You shouldn't have a problem getting the vet to prescribe penicillin. If they confirm that it's syphilis, the only treatment listed in any vet books I know of is injected penicillin. It's the same for humans, too.

Definitely ask on RU, Jane will definitely know which penicillin types are more appropriate for rabbits. Thanks for suggesting that Flashy, it's been a while since I've had time to visit RU! Here,the penicillinhappened to be the same common type that the shelter keeps for cats and dogs, so they didn't even need to buy anything special.

Don't feel bad about this. There's no way to know if a rabbit has syphilis until it's symptoms start showing up. And if your other rabbits haven't been in contact with Dotty, they won't be infected. It spreads only by direct fluid contact. I bet you had those health lessons in school, right?

 

[mouse_chalk]

Ok, I'm back, with the pictures!


Here's one side of her mouth:

Other side (not as clear, sorry)

And here's her nose. See the little smudge of brown? That wasn't there before today.... :?

:?

Does it normally come up so quickly if it is syphilis? Can I expect it to get much worse before tomorrow afternoon? :expressionless Man I really hope we see a good vet and they DON'T give us yet more Baytril! :grumpy: :cry1:


Now I'm quite worried about poor Dotters

 

[tonyshuman]

It shouldn't get much worse overnight. Definitely bring up the idea of syphillis if the vet doesn't, those pics look a lot like it, and ask for penicillin. I'm sure by now they know that you mean business with your bunnies and they shouldn't try to pass you off with simple baytril.

 

[Maureen Las]

Oh it does look like vent disease

I agee that you are having a lot of problems recently

the vet should give you penicillin for it

cannot imagine why not ?

 

[naturestee]

Yup, IMO it looks like syphilis/vent disease.

It can pop up really fast. I was playing and checking my foster babies twice a day, and suddenly Zappa's genitals blew up like a balloon! Thankfully they didn't grow more swollen in the next couple days, as our vet initially tried a broad-spectrum oral antibiotic as it appeared to be cystitis (spelling?) and not syphilis, especially since it initially had a fecal blockage right at the anal opening that I thought might have caused the swelling. Apparently it was the other way around, but hey.

She'll be ok. Make sure the sores aren't keeping her from eating, but other than that she's more lucky than my babies were. And they're all doing well now. Especially Zappa, who had it worst!

 

[pamnock]

If the rabbits are out in the garden area, this might just be a bacterial, viral or fungal infection.

It is likely that the rabbit would have shown health issues well before now if it had congenital syphilis, although syphilis (aka vent disease) can manifest itself in a wide variety of symptoms.



Pam

 

[Bo B Bunny]

I was wondering if she hadn't cut herself chewing on a cage/gate? Mine stick their noses through all the time and I always worry they'll hurt themselves on something!

 

[mouse_chalk]

Pam, they are in the garden area a bit! Or they have been quite a bit these past 2 weeks. It's not treated with anything at all though...

How would the vet know? Is it something that can be easily told from an examination or do they have to wait for results to come back? *yawn- my vets take a while for that*...

It doesn't look any worse this morning thankfully. Althouh I think one of the scabs on one side fell off and now it just looks very red and.... scabby there :expressionless


I also discovered why I wouldn't have seen. I couldn't understand how I missed it, since I'm always cuddling her and she's always jumping into the bed etc. She jumped up this morning, and snuggled on my pillow and washed my face for about 15minutes. I realised that all I can see when she snuggles up is a blurry big nose and whiskers! She's TOO close for me to see anything else! Lol.... Silly bunny...

 

[pamnock]

The vet should test to see if it's fungal. I had a horse with white skin around his mouth that was prone to similar lesions around his muzzle from bacterial/fungal infections from damp grass. The corners of the mouth can be a common area for fungal infections (angular chelitis.)

The vet willalso want to consider vent disease, but I think that your rabbit is at low risk for syphilis.

Pam

 

[mouse_chalk]

pamnock wrote:

The vet should test to see if it's fungal. I had a horse with white skin around his mouth that was prone to similar lesions around his muzzle from bacterial/fungal infections from damp grass. The corners of the mouth can be a common area for fungal infections (angular chelitis.)

The vet willalso want to consider vent disease, but I think that your rabbit is at low risk for syphilis.

Pam

It would make sense, if that was the case, that She's only started to get it the past few days or so? She had been in the garden a couple of times before that, but she was out pretty much every day last week....


Now I feel bad for letting her out!



If it is a fungal infection, is the treatment still antibiotics?