does Fizz have something up her nose?

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JBun

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Sure. Might be a bit more work for you chopping her food up into little bits, but they can do just fine. I think the initial adjustment will be difficult, and also making sure the mouth heals up alright and infection doesn't set in.

Like Niomi said, usually root overgrowth will be managed with burring down the molars. Extracting the molars can be difficult unless the teeth are already loose. But maybe the vet determined that the overgrowth is too severe for burring to be effective, and extraction is the best choice at this point.
 

Tam O Ham

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That is a problem I have had to deal with before. Once some teeth are gone, the remaining teeth might spread out and get out of alignment. Then he may have to go in about every 3 months for teeth trims. Some vets just grind the molars down and sometimes that gives some relief. That is what I am going through right now with my Netherland Dwarf. This is one of those things that can't be fixed. It has to be managed. My rabbit will have a good quality of life as long as I can have his teeth trimmed every few months. I was told that at some point, the trimming may stop working for pain control, and then he will need to be euthanized. I hope you get better news.

When I run out of Critical Care, I crush up pellet and add water. Then I add some canned pumpkin to the pellets to make them slippery enough to go through a syringe.
Thank you Niomi. It's really rough to have our babies going through this kind of thing and I'm sorry you are too. I'm glad that you've got a solution that gives you more time with your Netherland. In Fizz's case they're talking about taking out ALL of her back teeth. They say the roots on all of them are too long and several of them are threatening her eye and nasal cavities. The vet said that meant it would only be 'soft foods' but I'm waiting to hear back from the expert, hopefully today. Will your Netherland eat on his own or do you have to syringe feed him and if so how often and how much?
 

Tam O Ham

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Sure. Might be a bit more work for you chopping her food up into little bits, but they can do just fine. I think the initial adjustment will be difficult, and also making sure the mouth heals up alright and infection doesn't set in.

Like Niomi said, usually root overgrowth will be managed with burring down the molars. Extracting the molars can be difficult unless the teeth are already loose. But maybe the vet determined that the overgrowth is too severe for burring to be effective, and extraction is the best choice at this point.
I don't mind chopping food up into smaller bits at all. I think Fizz would adjust pretty well to that since her favorite treats are tiny sized squares of papaya already. If I had to syringe her every day multiple times a day for the rest of her life I don't think she'd do well with that at all and that really worries me. Also yeah, it looks like its total extraction. Some of the root tips are starting to threaten her eye socket and nasal passage. The vet said if you take one out on top, you pretty much need to take out the matching one on the bottom and the ones on the bottom roots are stretching pretty low in her chin too. She eats hay like a little lawn mower and always has so all I can think is that this must have been a genetic thing. I am worried about recovery. Hopefully the vet can be pretty detailed when they call today.
 

Niomi

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They say the roots on all of them are too long and several of them are threatening her eye and nasal cavities. The vet said that meant it would only be 'soft foods' but I'm waiting to hear back from the expert, hopefully today. Will your Netherland eat on his own or do you have to syringe feed him and if so how often and how much?
Strangely, my NF never stopped eating. He was crabby, and if I paid enough attention, I could have seen that he was only chewing on one side of his mouth. My lop mix stopped eating when he had teeth problems. I syringe fed him a little bit every few hour until he was eating on his own. I don't remember how much I gave him, but I am sure it was not as much as the doctor said he should have. He hated being fed, so I settled for a small amount more often. Syringe feeding just made him nervous, angry and upset, which seemed counter productive. The teeth trims has worked for these two rabbit. I had a standard satin rabbit that had root problems. She went through 4 teeth trims with two different vets in just over a month. The last vet said that she should have all of her teeth pulled, and then I would have to hand feed her. Since rabbit spend a good deal of time grazing, I saw this as a quality of life issue. I had her euthanized. That was years ago, and I have since found information on the internet that says that rabbits can't live without teeth. My current vet believes that once you start pulling teeth, the rabbit will go downhill pretty fast. No other vet has told me this. So sorry about your rabbit. I know you will do what you believe is right. Good luck!
 

Tam O Ham

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Strangely, my NF never stopped eating. He was crabby, and if I paid enough attention, I could have seen that he was only chewing on one side of his mouth. My lop mix stopped eating when he had teeth problems. I syringe fed him a little bit every few hour until he was eating on his own. I don't remember how much I gave him, but I am sure it was not as much as the doctor said he should have. He hated being fed, so I settled for a small amount more often. Syringe feeding just made him nervous, angry and upset, which seemed counter productive. The teeth trims has worked for these two rabbit. I had a standard satin rabbit that had root problems. She went through 4 teeth trims with two different vets in just over a month. The last vet said that she should have all of her teeth pulled, and then I would have to hand feed her. Since rabbit spend a good deal of time grazing, I saw this as a quality of life issue. I had her euthanized. That was years ago, and I have since found information on the internet that says that rabbits can't live without teeth. My current vet believes that once you start pulling teeth, the rabbit will go downhill pretty fast. No other vet has told me this. So sorry about your rabbit. I know you will do what you believe is right. Good luck!
thank you for being straight up with me. It's what I'm so very afraid of. I would do almost anything to keep Fizz with me. She's my little heart holder and has been for almost seven years now. But I would never put her through the trauma of surgery and recovery and then have her living a miserable or even uncomfortable life afterward on top of that. I'm still waiting to hear back from the vet but it helps to kind of prepare myself ahead of time for how things could go if they go that way.
 

JBun

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With tooth extractions, I think it can go either way. I think there are ones that are very successful and the rabbit goes on to have a happy life, and others that can have complications that affect the rabbits quality of life. If pain and possible infection are managed with good pain meds and antibiotics, and if your rabbit can adapt to eating moistened pellets on her own so syringe feeding isn't needed, then it could be that extraction might be a good option. But it is a personal decision to make. If you decide that extraction would be too much, then it becomes about management for as long as your bun can continue to do well, by burring the molars and good pain control.

You might find this link helpful to better understand what occurs with an extraction. It details one owner and rabbits experience, with a video of the surgery itself.

Medirabbit: Stella's dental surgery
 

Tam O Ham

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With tooth extractions, I think it can go either way. I think there are ones that are very successful and the rabbit goes on to have a happy life, and others that can have complications that affect the rabbits quality of life. If pain and possible infection are managed with good pain meds and antibiotics, and if your rabbit can adapt to eating moistened pellets on her own so syringe feeding isn't needed, then it could be that extraction might be a good option. But it is a personal decision to make. If you decide that extraction would be too much, then it becomes about management for as long as your bun can continue to do well, by burring the molars and good pain control.

You might find this link helpful to better understand what occurs with an extraction. It details one owner and rabbits experience, with a video of the surgery itself.

Medirabbit: Stella's dental surgery
ah, thank you JBun. Short of the recent eating issue Fizz has always been a very lively and interactive rabbit. I don't want her lifestyle to be decreased in any way that would take that from her. But I don't want to give her up yet either. So far the specialist hasn't gotten back to my vet yet and we're coming up on the weekend when everyone will be closed so I might not hear anything until Monday (and at this point my emotions kind of hope that's the case). Hearing two very different stories helps balance me out emotionally a bit. Gives me more to think about as well and that's a good thing. Now that I"ve got worst case but also best case scenario, I think I'm in a better place to hear whatever the vet says and go from there. This would be a lot harder to work through without you and Niomi. I just want to do what's best for Fizz.

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Tam O Ham

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so we've got a Fizz update!

on Monday I got a call back from the vet that said the radiologist had responded. They thought they saw an abscess and so I was recommended to the rabbit dental expert. Called and set up the appointment and we went in on Thursday. The vet looked Fizz over and the x-rays and said that, considering Fizz's age (she's almost seven) she wasn't worried about the roots. She also said she didn't see any abscess but she would put Fizz on antibiotics just in case. She did have to grind down the molars that had spurs both top and bottom. They also did blood work on Fizz before they put her under and said that the tests came back great and it was good. They gave me the painkillers and two doses of antibiotics and sent me home and wow, I don't think I need to tell you how relieved and giddy to avoid surgery and still get to keep my baby I was. Fizz was a little bit subdued but she ate and pooped and cuddled. There was much rejoicing.

So now Fizz is on
.75ml of metacam once a day for five days
1 ml baytril twice a day for 14 days
and a once a day injection of .25ml penicillin for 21 days

I'm not sure if its the baytril or the penicillin because I give them both to her at the same time but one of them makes her very lethargic and not interested in eating for an hour or so afterward. But yeah - that's where we stand right now
 

JBun

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That's why it pays to get an expert opinion. I'm glad you were able to get one and now your bun is clear of a possible dental extraction.

It could be either antibiotic causing the stomach upset. If it's the baytril, it can sometimes help to make sure to give it after your rabbit has had something to eat and drink so there is food in the stomach.

Something I would suggest, is if you see an improvement on the antibiotics, it could mean there really is an infection somewhere that just isn't apparent, and if so, then it would be good to ask the vet to extend the antibiotics at least another 2-4 weeks. Also, if your bun isn't doing as well when the metacam is stopped, then that could mean your bun has some ongoing pain, so it would be good to ask your vet to continue with the metacam a little longer.
 

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