Do rabbits with flat heads have breathing problems??

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Apollo’s Slave

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I was talking about my favourite and least favourite breeds of rabbit on Instagram and mentioned that I don’t like Holland lops because they’re prone to breathing problems.
Someone messaged me with ‘Holland lops don’t have breathing problems. No holland lop I have seen or others who have owned them have breathing problems. It’s all like a false thing with flat heads’ then ‘And holland lops and mini lops are literally the same thing aha. And Netherland dwarfs also have flat faces but they don’t have breathing problems either’.

This seemed wrong to me, especially as I’ve been around lots of pets not just rabbits who have flat heads and breathing problems.

Frenchies, pugs and some chow chows, for example are pets with flatheads and pretty much every one knows that they’re more prone to breathing problems, especially later on in life.

I also accidentally offended someone this morning by saying that I didn’t like frenchies when they asked me but that’s a whole other story.


Could anyone tell me a bit more about this subject, or send some links about it? I would love yo get to know more about it
 
No I think your right lops have breathing problems cause their cute face is smooshed up and they still have to fit the nose and mouth,etc. Together on their face
 
This is one of my pet peeves. I've bred many rabbits with "bulldog" heads as they are called, and they are not comparable at all to brachycephalic dogs or cats, such as pugs and persians. I've never had a holland lop, or netherland dwarf, or any other flat headed breed, with breathing problems. The only rabbit I've had with chronic breathing problems has been a belgian hare. First off: rabbits don't have a "stop" in their head, so their eyes are not facing forward. This stop is what creates the curve in the snout which, when shortened, can constrict the breathing passages. So in rabbits when the face is shortened, instead of creating a more acute angle for the air to go through, like kinking a water hose, it simply shortens the airways. Second off - most rabbits with round heads don't actually have heads that are significantly shorter or rounder. They are bred to have very thick fur that stands erect on their faces and gives it that fluffy, round look. Sure, their heads might be a bit shorter, but they still look like rabbit heads, as opposed to pugs, with their skulls looking round and deformed, hardly recognizable as a dog. I've attached an image below: on the left is an American Fuzzy Lop, a rabbit with a bulldog/flat style head and the dwarfing gene: on the right is a Checkered Giant, which has a very "normal" shaped head. The two don't look very different structurally.

Malocclusion is whole different story though, I do think that rabbits with flat heads are more prone to malocclusion but that can be avoided through selective breeding.

AFLleftCGright.jpg
 
I have heard that but you would need to look at scientific papers that have verified it by xrays, scans, scoping, etc, as proof whether it's true or not. I can't say if it's true or not as I haven't researched it myself, but I do have dwarf hotots and several of them have always had noisier respirations when a little stressed, like when I have to handle them for nail trims. Also a few of them snore. And they've just gotten noisier as they've gotten older. They've been like this since babies and they are 8 now. It's possible it's just their genetics, but the noisiest snorer in the group is a half sibling, so if it's genetic then it's not from the mom. So whether it's the breed(being a dwarf) or it's just this genetic line, I have no clue.

In the US holland lops and mini lops are two different breeds. Mini lops are slightly bigger than the holland lop breed. In the UK, our(US) holland lop is called a mini or miniature lop there. So that may be where the confusion lies. A US holland lop is a UK mini/miniature lop.
 
I would say it comes down to the breeders. I’ve also read about holland lop and netherland dwarf having breathing problems. Because it’s common people like brachycephaly in rabbits. Myself have both a holland lop mix and netherland dwarf. My holland lop (Toste) have chronic rhintious and ear problems while Odin have no problems.

It’s like rex bunnies are prone to sore hocks, english lop can’t live outdoors or can hurt their ears and lop bunnies are prone with ear problems while satin bunnies can get teeth problems and so on. It’s not like everyone will get the problems it all comes to the gentics if you breed rabbits that are healthy or not. You can push the brachycephaly in rabbits too far and it will cause breathing problems which is true.

Myself love netherland dwarf because I love their energy and personality. Not a fan of lop bunnies but major bunnies I have owned have been lops.

There are people that have more healthy frenchies, with good breathing but they aren’t as much supported as other because they don’t have a lot of brachycephaly as many want to have. It will go down to the buyers if you support the people that breed for the healthy of the breed or not.
 
This is one of my pet peeves. I've bred many rabbits with "bulldog" heads as they are called, and they are not comparable at all to brachycephalic dogs or cats, such as pugs and persians. I've never had a holland lop, or netherland dwarf, or any other flat headed breed, with breathing problems. The only rabbit I've had with chronic breathing problems has been a belgian hare. First off: rabbits don't have a "stop" in their head, so their eyes are not facing forward. This stop is what creates the curve in the snout which, when shortened, can constrict the breathing passages. So in rabbits when the face is shortened, instead of creating a more acute angle for the air to go through, like kinking a water hose, it simply shortens the airways. Second off - most rabbits with round heads don't actually have heads that are significantly shorter or rounder. They are bred to have very thick fur that stands erect on their faces and gives it that fluffy, round look. Sure, their heads might be a bit shorter, but they still look like rabbit heads, as opposed to pugs, with their skulls looking round and deformed, hardly recognizable as a dog. I've attached an image below: on the left is an American Fuzzy Lop, a rabbit with a bulldog/flat style head and the dwarfing gene: on the right is a Checkered Giant, which has a very "normal" shaped head. The two don't look very different structurally.

Malocclusion is whole different story though, I do think that rabbits with flat heads are more prone to malocclusion but that can be avoided through selective breeding.

View attachment 50141
Ah okay. That’s very interesting, thank you! It’s nice to see that they don’t actually have flat heads like pugs (pugs scare me a little 😅).


I have heard that but you would need to look at scientific papers that have verified it by xrays, scans, scoping, etc, as proof whether it's true or not. I can't say if it's true or not as I haven't researched it myself, but I do have dwarf hotots and several of them have always had noisier respirations when a little stressed, like when I have to handle them for nail trims. Also a few of them snore. And they've just gotten noisier as they've gotten older. They've been like this since babies and they are 8 now. It's possible it's just their genetics, but the noisiest snorer in the group is a half sibling, so if it's genetic then it's not from the mom. So whether it's the breed(being a dwarf) or it's just this genetic line, I have no clue.

In the US holland lops and mini lops are two different breeds. Mini lops are slightly bigger than the holland lop breed. In the UK, our(US) holland lop is called a mini or miniature lop there. So that may be where the confusion lies. A US holland lop is a UK mini/miniature lop.
Ah, thank you. That’s so cool (I think, it might not be) that your rabbit snore! I’ve never heard a rabbit snore before!
It definitely could be the name differences are causing a confusion - I’m more used to the American names than the English ones


I would say it comes down to the breeders. I’ve also read about holland lop and netherland dwarf having breathing problems. Because it’s common people like brachycephaly in rabbits. Myself have both a holland lop mix and netherland dwarf. My holland lop (Toste) have chronic rhintious and ear problems while Odin have no problems.

It’s like rex bunnies are prone to sore hocks, english lop can’t live outdoors or can hurt their ears and lop bunnies are prone with ear problems while satin bunnies can get teeth problems and so on. It’s not like everyone will get the problems it all comes to the gentics if you breed rabbits that are healthy or not. You can push the brachycephaly in rabbits too far and it will cause breathing problems which is true.

Myself love netherland dwarf because I love their energy and personality. Not a fan of lop bunnies but major bunnies I have owned have been lops.

There are people that have more healthy frenchies, with good breathing but they aren’t as much supported as other because they don’t have a lot of brachycephaly as many want to have. It will go down to the buyers if you support the people that breed for the healthy of the breed or not.
That’s totally true. It does often depend on the breeder. Thank you! 🙂
 
There is a lot of evidence that breeding for traits that do not occur in European wild rabbits creates increased health risks. Lop ears, short faces, crazy fur, giant, dwarf, etc. (See e.g. John Chitty. Breed-specific health and welfare problems in rabbits, Rabbiting on, Autumn 2020. John Chitty is a well known rabbit vet.) He does mention breathing problems in brachycephalic rabbits. Nasal cavities and sinuses are compressed in these guys. Evolution has done quite a good job over many thousands of years. It is sad people feel they have to interfere with that just because they think some unnatural features look cute.
 
There is a lot of evidence that breeding for traits that do not occur in European wild rabbits creates increased health risks. Lop ears, short faces, crazy fur, giant, dwarf, etc. (See e.g. John Chitty. Breed-specific health and welfare problems in rabbits, Rabbiting on, Autumn 2020. John Chitty is a well known rabbit vet.) He does mention breathing problems in brachycephalic rabbits. Nasal cavities and sinuses are compressed in these guys. Evolution has done quite a good job over many thousands of years. It is sad people feel they have to interfere with that just because they think some unnatural features look cute.
Thank you! That would definitely make sense. I know that lops are prone to getting wax in their ears, rexes are prone to sore hocks etc. I’ll definitely check out that thing by John Chitty.
 
Thank you! That would definitely make sense. I know that lops are prone to getting wax in their ears, rexes are prone to sore hocks etc. I’ll definitely check out that thing by John Chitty.
Are you a member of the RWAF? I recommend it. You get a fantastic magazine 4 times a year plus other membership benefits.
 

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