Craisins - from Zeus' vet

[TinysMom]

Zeus' vet and I had a very good discussion yesterday on his health and particularly his diet. She convinced me to reduce his amounts of pellets (although he is NOT obese and is a good weight) and go with more greens and hay (he needs 4 packed cups of greens per day).

She even printed off a several-page article by Dr. Susan Brown about the health of rabbits, etc.

But one thing we especially talked about was sweets and craisins. She is TOTALLY AGAINST craisins.

She said that she didn't mind dried cranberries as long as they were in moderation - but she said that EVERY bunny she has seen in the last couple of years that had diabetes - had craisins as one of their treats. She said that the amount of sugar in them was horrible for rabbits and that while rabbits loved them - she would never recommend anyone using them because she believes that it could lead to trouble down the road.

Art & I decided that we will let Zeus and the others finish up the several bags of craisins I already have ....with others getting a couple also and Zeus being severly limited in his amount...and then we're going to switch to dried Cranberries. Those don't have the added sugar and we can give them on a LIMITED basis. I didn't think Zeus would go for those - but Dave & Karen had some for him last night and he did like them.

So if you're using craisins like I was - I urge you to reconsider.

My mindset was always "I am going to lose my bunny someday anyway...I want them to enjoy life and they love craisisn so much..." but my mindset now is "I want them to live as long as possible (while enjoying life)- so I will give them healthier treats...".

She said that fruits would be a great treat - and there is a list of them - but she wants him to have very limited amounts of banana compared to the other fruits on the list.

 

[Flashy]

Good for you for adjusting their diet.

I see a lot of 'overloved' buns and and it can be sad the state some of them are in. Summer was an overloved bun and in a complete mess when she came here.

I'm not for one minute saying that's what Zeus is, but what you're doing means he won't ever get that way Sometimes loving them can mean restricting things (same as with children), even if they don't like it and you feel bad doing it.

Zeus is one lucky guy to have such a loving home

 

[Little Bay Poo]

I guess it's time for me to consider cutting out the apple chips. When we brought Ronnie to the vet they were upset about us giving a small piece of apple chip a day, but never explained why. I thought they didn't want the bunnies to get fat! Diabetes had never crossed my mind.

It will be a breeze for Ronnie, but Billy absolutely adores his apple chips. It's going to be difficult to refuse him when he starts begging

 

[Happi Bun]

Oh no, Dunkin just discovered the joys of Craisins!

But I don't want to risk him developing diabetes later on in life.

Where can you find dried unsweetened Cranberries?

 

[pocketsizedrhino]

Publix, if you have it in your area, carries dried fruits in the 'greenwise' section of the store with other nuts and things. They're all in little clear containers.
Somewhere like Trader Joe's, Whole Foods or any other organic/green sort of place would surely carry them..

 

[tonyshuman]

Whole foods has them too--sweetened with apple juice instead of plain sugar.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

A-HA!
Not to mention that dried cranberries are significantly cheaper!

 

[Pet_Bunny]

TinysMom wrote:

So if you're using craisins like I was - I urge you to reconsider.

It is a dilemma that we "Love our Bunnies to death."

For nowCraisins will be cut way back. I may have to eat them all myself. :whistling
It was this forum that we discovered the sins of Craisins. :angel: :devil

 

[TinysMom]

Little Bay Poo wrote:

I guess it's time for me to consider cutting out the apple chips. When we brought Ronnie to the vet they were upset about us giving a small piece of apple chip a day, but never explained why. I thought they didn't want the bunnies to get fat! Diabetes had never crossed my mind.

It will be a breeze for Ronnie, but Billy absolutely adores his apple chips. It's going to be difficult to refuse him when he starts begging

I'll have to find the paperwork again - I think those are allowed - but in limited quantities.

My vet said the very BEST "treat" for them - if you want to give them treats - is to give them treats from the fruit list - sparingly.

 

[Amy27]

My vet told me she also liked dried cranberries over crasins. I went and bought dried cranberries at Kroger, they were Pic-A-Nut brand in the produce section. When I got them home I noticed they had 26g of sugar in them. I don't have my crasin bag to compare sugar content. But I believe the sugar content is close to the same.

So look at the back of your dried cranberry packets before buying them. I need to go to Whole Foods or Trader Joe's to see if I can find some with less sugar.

 

[Little Bay Poo]

TinysMom wrote:

Little Bay Poo wrote:

I guess it's time for me to consider cutting out the apple chips. When we brought Ronnie to the vet they were upset about us giving a small piece of apple chip a day, but never explained why. I thought they didn't want the bunnies to get fat! Diabetes had never crossed my mind.

It will be a breeze for Ronnie, but Billy absolutely adores his apple chips. It's going to be difficult to refuse him when he starts begging

I'll have to find the paperwork again - I think those are allowed - but in limited quantities.

My vet said the very BEST "treat" for them - if you want to give them treats - is to give them treats from the fruit list - sparingly.

I was checking out the nutritional values earlier today, and noticed that the apple chips (Seneca brand) have 11 grams of sugar while craisins have close to 30. It's funny because we used to give the bunnies craisins, but once they discovered apple chips they started turning their noses up at craisins.

It's still something I want to cut down. I've been giving Billy a half a chip every day, and it would probably be better to limit him to a small piece a couple of times a week. After all he's such a tiny little thing (and he does seem to get extra hyper after that chip ).

On the plus side, Billy didn't seem to mind his lack of apple chips today

 

[Rayen]

That's what I hate about most pet food/treats out there, especially the ones with added sugar, there's not much on them telling you how much sugar is actually in the product. The majority just list protein, fiber, fat and moisture. I tend to read the ingredient list and analysis of everything I buy for them, but it doesn't really do all that much when I see something like 'cane molasses' part of the way down. I can only do an educated guess of how much sugar it may have compared to another item by the placement it is in the ingredient list.

I also hate how much different advice is out there for feeding rabbits. My vet told me to feed my rabbits 1 cup of vegetables a day, with 1/8 of a cup of pellets and little to no fruit and obviously unlimited grass hay. I don't even know how many treats they're supposed to have, I just give them 1-2 small (raisin-sized) pieces of dried fruit a day, or a baby carrot, or a piece of apple. I was told not to feed alfalfa under any circumstances, and never to feed hay cubes. I got a pretty good glaring when I went in with Briar the first time (she was about 3-4 months old) and told them I was feeding her alfalfa pellets/hay with some grass hay. I still feed them hay cubes as a treat every day, I still don't really see what's so wrong with them as long as the rabbits have access to loose hay and are only given in very limited amounts.

 

[TinysMom]

The first part of this article (very long) is pretty much what the vet printed up for us - it was several pages the way she printed it...but very convincing to me that I needed to change Zeus' diet.

(Also - the animal communicator I work with was discussing this with me and when I mentioned the change (more greens and stuff) she said, "That is good because his system feels sluggish and he'll feel better and be more active when you change him over..."


http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=673&S=5&SourceID=43

 

[Saudade]

Can we have that list of fruits that are allowed?

 

[TinysMom]

Saudade wrote:

Can we have that list of fruits that are allowed?

Well - it is on that website I just linked to in the post up above...







Kiwi Fruit
Strawberries
Blueberries

Raspberries
Blackberries
Apple


Pear
Peach
Papaya

Pineapple
Cactus fruit
Melons

Bean or alfalfa sprouts
Green or red bell peppers
Mango

Pea pods (flat, NO peas)
Cherries
Cranberries

Edible flowers from the garden
(organically grown and NOT
from a florist) such as roses,
nasturtiums, day lilies, pansies
and snap dragons
Carrots
Squash






Dried fruit can be used as well, but since it is so concentrated, use only half the amount as fresh. We do not recommend feeding bananas and grapes as rabbits sometimes become “addicted” to these foods. If you do chose to feed them, watch your pet carefully to ensure he/she is also eating sufficient quantities of green foods and hay.
Forbidden Foods[/b]

 

[BethM]

Wow, I hadn't even thought about diabetes in rabbits. I have been watching sugar, though, as I want them to be at a healthy weight. Also, Nick has a sensitive tummy and will leave his cecals if he gets very many treats. I want things to be "fair," so if Nick can't have many treats, no one else can, either.

The treats I give are limited to one slice of banana in the morning with their salad. I usually make the slice pretty thin, the size of a dried banana chip. For days that I don't have a fresh banana, I keep a package of Just Bananas dried banana chips. They don't have added sugar or oil, and the bunnies love them.

There is also a bedtime treat, as it helps me to get them back in their pen after run-time. Nick and Amelia now know that when I open the container, it's bedtime and they will go right in their pen. I started out giving two raisins. I was getting the Organic Flame Raisins from Whole Foods. Organic, and no added sugar or preservatives.
After Nick's first bout with stasis, though, I decided to go with dried papaya instead. (I know there's no proof that papaya helps their digestion, but it can't hurt them, so why not.) I've been getting Sweet Meadow Farm's dried papaya, as the bag says the only ingredient is dried papaya. So, no added sugar or preservatives. It is less convenient, as I have to order them, but oh well.
Amelia was very resistant, but I now have all 4 bunnies eating one raisin-sized piece each evening.

I could reduce the sugar even more, but cutting the banana pieces in half, and I may do so. But there aren't many "treats" around here. I am a mean mommy!

 

[TinysMom]

I would say you're doing great. The vet told me that Zeus COULD have banana - but to make sure he was getting most of his food from non-sugary things. She said the biggest problems in the patients she sees (she does dogs and cats but she specializes in exotics) - is from the craisins/raisins, etc. She'd prefer he not get oats and stuff also...she feels like if we can get him on a mainly veggie diet with hay and *some* pellets...that he'll be much healthier.

I wish I'd had my camera so you could ses his face light up tonight when I took him in his first "real" salad - but I didn't make it quite four cups as it was his first one (he frequently does get greens).

He had spring mix salad for about 2/3 of it - then cilantro added and romaine lettuce added and a carrot cut up.

He was't sure whether to binky or eat - so he chose to eat.

 

[BethM]

TinysMom wrote:

I wish I'd had my camera so you could ses his face light up tonight when I took him in his first "real" salad - but I didn't make it quite four cups as it was his first one (he frequently does get greens).

He had spring mix salad for about 2/3 of it - then cilantro added and romaine lettuce added and a carrot cut up.

He was't sure whether to binky or eat - so he chose to eat.

Awwww! Wish I could have seen him!

I don't think my Ben had ever had much in the way of salad before he came to me. At first, he didn't know what to do with the veggies, and it would take him several hours and still not finish them. Now, he sits in the place I put the salad and waits for it. He scarfs it down faster than any of my other buns, and will thump if I don't give him his first. LOL!

Nick has been getting about a teaspoon of oats, in addition to his bedtime treat, as he tends towards the skinny side. Wasn't sure how much to give him, so I guessed that might be a safe amount. The other bunnies get mighty angry when they don't get any. He lost a lot of weight the last time he had stasis, and never put it back on again. He seems healthy and energetic, just skinny.

 

[TinysMom]

Then I would think oats would be fine and I wouldn't hesitate to do that.

In Zeus' case - he's a perfect weight - not obese and not too skinny. In fact - he was so healthy - she didn't really understand why I was bringing him in.

The animal communicator I work with was explaining to Zeus about his new diet and she said that the impression he gave her was that he was feeling sluggish...which would make sense I guess if your system was overloaded with starches or whatever.

I did notice that after I started giving him spring mix almost daily - he started become more active - but I never put the two thoughts together..that he was more active because he was more healthy.

I wish I could explain to everyone the difference in Zeus now.

I'm going to spend some time next week going over his new menu plan and planning it out in advance...I can't put all the lionheads on his diet - and right now the flemmies need more pellets, etc. for growing - although they get some greens too (and LOTS of hay)...

I'm ordering him 14 "mini bales" of hay from Barbi Brown next week - I know I'm going to get him oat hay and several others. I can hardly wait....I think he'll love it.

I've also started adapting his potential girlfriend to his diet for when they start living together. She's so happy....

 

[Little Bay Poo]

BethM wrote:

Nick has been getting about a teaspoon of oats, in addition to his bedtime treat, as he tends towards the skinny side. Wasn't sure how much to give him, so I guessed that might be a safe amount. The other bunnies get mighty angry when they don't get any. He lost a lot of weight the last time he had stasis, and never put it back on again. He seems healthy and energetic, just skinny.

When we first got the bunnies, we didn't know that too many oats was a bad thing, and would heap on a nice big pile with a spoon from the kitchen. Billy went into mild stasis a few times. Now we keep a measuring spoon in the oatmeal container and, like you, give 1 teaspoon at bedtime. This amount has worked well for us. It's been two years and they haven't had any digestive problems since.

I know the article said to avoid oats, but I don't think I could bring myself to taking their oats away. Their little faces light up every time they hear the container open :hyper: