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Chippy was a sick little bunnie with Clostridium perfringens

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Munchkin

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I am praying for her Jim. I hope you hear good news really soon, but you've done a smashing job at looking after her from the sounds of it, so I'm sure she'll be just fine.

:)
 

Pipp

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I think I have another missing post in this thread... :dunno about her gut balance probably being out of whack? Maybe I posted it elsewhere. No matter, waiting to hear what the vet says.

:expressionless Sorry this is happening when you have company... and hate to keep bugging you for updates... but I'll keep sitting here watchingmy computer until I see one.



sas :pray:
 

JimD

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Ok, I just lost my whole LONG post....:X
Short (yeah ok)version :

Got home about 8pm....sorry about the delay in updating.

Chippy is doing okay.

They gave her sub=q and ran tests for parasites (Negative)and bacterial balance (Normal)

A fecal culture is out to the lab - results by Tuesday.

Prescribed Metronidazole (GI antibiotic) and Ketoprofen (pain)
Vet was out of Benebac and suggested plain yogurt for a couple of days until her order comes in. She also suggested canned pumpkin, fresh pineapple, and tummy rubs.
They had a hard time keeping Chippy clean and said the her diarrhea was still bad. They told me to be prepared to be cleaning her up a lot.

This is where things get interesting.......

We got home and I put Chippy in her cage. I went back upstairs to get hermeds, and when Ireturned, Chippy was eating hay. Then she hopped over to her litter pan and left a half a dozen poops that were pretty near perfect. Then she hopped over to her food bowl and ate a bunch of pellets. After that she went on to drink some water. Then she hopped back into her litter pan and left a few more poops.
I just checked on her and there's about a dozen more poops in the drop pan and a few more in the litter pan.

I was going to start her meds and treatments this evening, but now I think I'll hold off and see how she's doing in the morning...errr, I mean later.

My, but it's been a looooong day.

Thank you all for your concern and kind words through this ordeal.



 

Pipp

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Crud!! My turn to lose my post. :grumpy:

Anyway, :yes:

Chippy isa good girl!

I do think it was a gut imbalance leading to Cecal Dysbiosis, which can come from a diet change, including self-imposed diet changes. Maybe she was 'off her food' with the arrival of the new bunny, and that started a domino effect.

The treatment sounds good, although some experts would advise against the pineapple -- adding sugar to the situation is fuel for the fire. The key is fiber, fiber and more fiber. (Hay, pumpkin and water).

The probiotics have beensomewhat disputed, but thescalesare tipping in their favour lately, I've beenconvinced. I wouldn't wait for the Bene-Bac, any health food store and a lot of pharmacies and grocers sell Acidophus or something like it. If she's had yogurt recently with no ill effects, go for it, but according to our best expert, Pam Nock, bunnies as they age are more likely to become lactose intolerent, so that may possibly cause an upset tummy.

Tough call on that one. :?

Giive her a big fat kiss and a whole bunch of nose pats for me! :pet:



sas :bunnydance:


 

ra7751

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Hi,

I was getting really concerned but feel better during the last posts. This is a prime example of getting everyone trained to administer sub-q fluids. When you mentioned she looked "rough"....that is a sure sign of dehydration.

I do have one small question. The good news post said there was no bacterial imbalance but that Metronidazole (Flagyl) had been prescribed. If you can go back on some of my posts regarding stasis/ileus, this drug specifically targets the bacteria Clostridium which grows due to a die off of beneficial bacteria...and imbalance. When the gut starts to move, most of the time it will be a very smelly event and many times with mucous.

I don't know about the yogurt as it depends on what yogurt is used....sugar content is quite high in some yogurts. The use of probiotics is controversial. In a stasis event and gut imbalance, something that quickly kills off beneficial bacteria is a rapid change in pH. The idea behind using a probiotic is not so much the bacteria (which is mostly lactobacillis which is not a naturally growing bacteria in a rabbit's gut) but getting the pH back to where it should be. This can also be achieved by using acidophilus powder...or Vitamin C (abscorbic acid) like the supplements used for guinea pigs or even small pieces of citrus fruit. As far as Bene-Bac...it is available at major pet chain stores usually in the cat section.

I tend to agree with Pipp's last post. A basic bunny diet of high fiber is the best way to go once the gut starts to move. But bottom line is that I am very happy that Chippy is doing better. Our Miracle (she was the only survivor of a car accident and broke her back during the event) just came thru another round of stasis (most likely due to the internal injuries she received). We have a routine for her now based around sub-q hydration. Again, cheers for Chippy.

Randy
 

JimD

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'morning all!

Chippy is doing well!

When I checked on her a little bit ago, she was munching on pellets :biggrin2:and the water level on her bottle was down a good 1/4".
Looks like she eating and drinking on her own.

There were a few more poops and she had peed, too!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
sas:
The first thing I noticed with Chippy was the low fecal output, and then gradually she stopped eating and drinking. This happened over the course of two days.
That was when she started to look rough.

I'm going to stay away from the pineapple....like you said, the sugar could cause issues.
And I think the yogurt will be omitted, too. I thought I had some Acidophus, but I must have tossed it on my last purge of the fridge. I'll pick something up today.

Kisses and nose-rubs are to be administered often and in excess!!!:biggrin2:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Randy:
I was a bit surprised when the bacterial balance was found to be normal. Something was not in balance for sure.

Smelly was not the word for it. More like a hot, humid, rainy day inside an overcrowded elephant house at the Bronx Zoo. WHOA!!!!

I'll administer the Metronidazole and pick up some acidophilus today.
She doesn't seem to be in any pain or discomfort, so I may hold off on the Ketoprofen.

Since she's eating and drinking on her own, I'm going to hold off on syringing liquids and pellet slurry. If I see she's not taking in enough, I'll start up again.

How would one go about being trained and authorized to administer sub-q.
I'm sure that's what helped turn things toward the better.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks to everyone for sticking with us through this.
Hugs from me....and bunnie kisses from Chippy!!!

Time to feed the buns and get started on a bit of bunnie-room cleaning!
 

JimD

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I'm really starting to get annoyed with MrsD.
She keeps letting the dog go in the basement with the bunnies.
The dog has to follow her everywhere, so when MrsD goes in the basement the dog follows.
It's wash day and the laundry room is in the basement, so MrsD will be down there a couple dozen times at least.
I've asked her again and again to keep the dog out of the basement, because the buns get anxious. Even If I put the gate up, she just takes it down and lets the dog in. She doesn't see any problem, though.

I just went down and there was the dog in front ofChippy's cage ....and Chippy cowering in the back corner.

I told her that if the dog barks at the buns....even once....I'm going to put her outside.
The dog has the run of the whole house and doesn't need to go in with the bunnies!!

ARRRRRGH!!!:X

 

SOOOSKA

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Jim I had a good laugh it's usually men that don't listen to the wives LOL, I always say to the husband what I say to you goes in one ear and out the other.

Glad to hear Chippy is feeling better. Now Chippy you tell your Daddy that once you are 100% he MUST give you a treat like maybe a few Craisins.

Susan:bunnydance:
 

ra7751

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Hi Jim,

Chippy's improvement is a good way to start the day..it's nice to have some good news for a change.

Couple of comments. Thing about pineapple is that we use it a lot and have always had excellent success with it. It seems that nobody can show why it works but it does for us...and I ain't gonna "look a gift horse in the mouth". so to speak. But it appears that it is beneficial due to a combination of it's chemical properties along with those of the mucous in the gut and it's pH.I know some have tested this theory and I have read their findings...however, without going into too much detail on this one, it appears that the testing methods are flawed. But....we use only the fresh fruit and I cut the fruit andhand squeeze the juice. In combination with our other GI stasis/ileus protocols, we start with the juice and then start adding Critical Care in increasing amounts. It's a somewhat long process but it has never failed us. And another thing about stasis is to not over react. I get calls so often that say "my rabbit just got sick all of a sudden". No, it's gut has been slowing down for several days but you just didn't notice. It seems that everyone on the forum pays close attention to their buns and catch things like this early when it is easier to deal with...just as you did. We have had buns in stasis for over a week at a time and pulled them thru. Key is to fully understand what the condition is, what is causing it and how the gut works in the smallest of details.

As far as learning sub-q fluids....most vets realize the importance of being able to do this....especially with a rabbit and will sell you the fluids and supplies. Not expensive at all considering the benefits it provides. It can buy valuable time. Any vet tech can teach you in less than 5 minutes. It's so easy. Just need to know what fluid to use, when to use it and how much to use. Most vets will teach you the "drip" method which looks just like the human method....stick the needle in and let it drip thur the infusion tube. It works well but takes a while. I use a slightly different method due to my wildlife work since many of those species...especially the big birds...don't really appreciate being stuck with a needle and then held down. So I use something a little faster. If anyone is interested in learning that method that already knows how to sub-q, send me a PM. I don't want to go over here since you should learn the drip method first.

Again, congrats to Chippy.

Randy
 

JimD

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Chippy is improving steadily.
I cleaned out her litter pan and she promptly redeposited a load.
She has been eating a good amount of hay and pellets. And the water bottle is down another 1/4".

I'm going to wait on the meds for now and see how she does. I've got my arsenal if she should take a turn.

I scolded the dog and she won't go in the basement now. She lays down on the top step and waits....with a real sad look on her face.

Randy:
Thanks for the info about the sub-q.!

I'm also a firm believer in early detection and think that owners should be consistentwith the daily observation of their charges.
If I had known our vet changed their days,I would have taken her in a day earlier, too. They used to be closed on Thursday.

Time for a beer! And a sandwich!!
There's a Harry Potter movie on.....I think I take my snack a watch it in the bunnie room.

TTFN!
:biggrin2:

 

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