Can anyone tell if these are peanuts?

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CaseyB

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I have a litter of 18 day old Holland Lops. Two of them have always been way smaller then the other three. My gut instinct was that they were peanuts due to head shape, ball like eyes, hind legs were weak and tiny ears. I thought they might not make it. But they are doing great, growing and running around and have their eyes open. Can anyone tell by the pictures if they are peanuts?
 

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GigiRabbits

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I would guess yes......but if they're still living then I'm a bit confused! I was told that all peanuts died very young - before they could reach adulthood. But maybe the person was wrong! I will say though that your bunnies are absolutely adorable, and congrats on the litter!
 

zuppa

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They look smaller than others but it can also be that they just had smaller breed rabbits in their line. As an example, I had 6 babies in same litter with three were much bigger than other three. All kits were very healthy and now are two years old next week, two of them are still with me and the smallest one is simply very cool miniature lop rabbit with dwarf gene, he is smaller than both his parents as of today. He is very strong and energetic and never had any health issues whatsoever but as I can compare their size today, his sister is significantly larger than him. I think that their mother had mixed breeds in her line that's why kits were so different. All were absolutely healthy.

For peanuts I personally have no first hand experience but as far as I know their ears are very small and also because they have two dwarf genes they won't survive past 4 weeks, as they say they usually die in first 3 days. So I guess they are not peanuts after all, but wait for @SableSteel here she will know for sure, as i said I never had any peanuts in my litters.
 
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JBun

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I would say that having reached almost 3 weeks old, it becomes much more unlikely they're peanuts. A lot of breeders say peanuts can't last more than a week because of the birth defects, but then I've read others swearing they've had peanuts live to several weeks old. All you can do is wait and see. If they continue to survive, then they are likely just runts.
 
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SableSteel

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They do look like peanuts to me. Perhaps not the most peanuty-peanuts I've seen (their ears could be a bit smaller, and the fact they grew at all and look sort of healthy is odd) but still look like peanuts, especially at current age you can see huge difference from the siblings. Strange. You do hear the occasional case a peanut living a few weeks or even a couple months (picture attached of peanut mini rex w/sibling). But having two in one litter is what surprises me. Maybe there is some sort of mutation to that dwarf gene or something. I truly don't know.
 

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SableSteel

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If you are really interested in discussing it you might try a facebook group like Rabbit Color Genetics they usually have more in depth genetic discussion than this forum.
 

CaseyB

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I would guess yes......but if they're still living then I'm a bit confused! I was told that all peanuts died very young - before they could reach adulthood. But maybe the person was wrong! I will say though that your bunnies are absolutely adorable, and congrats on the litter!
Thank you! We love them so much I’m really hoping the little two aren’t peanuts.
 

CaseyB

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They do look like peanuts to me. Perhaps not the most peanuty-peanuts I've seen (their ears could be a bit smaller, and the fact they grew at all and look sort of healthy is odd) but still look like peanuts, especially at current age you can see huge difference from the siblings. Strange. You do hear the occasional case a peanut living a few weeks or even a couple months (picture attached of peanut mini rex w/sibling). But having two in one litter is what surprises me. Maybe there is some sort of mutation to that dwarf gene or something. I truly don't know.
Thanks for you help! I keep thinking I will find them not doing well but they surprise me more everyday and are now jumping outside the nesting box to run around. I guess I will just have to wait and see.
 

peanutdabunny

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They do look like peanuts to me. Perhaps not the most peanuty-peanuts I've seen (their ears could be a bit smaller, and the fact they grew at all and look sort of healthy is odd) but still look like peanuts, especially at current age you can see huge difference from the siblings. Strange. You do hear the occasional case a peanut living a few weeks or even a couple months (picture attached of peanut mini rex w/sibling). But having two in one litter is what surprises me. Maybe there is some sort of mutation to that dwarf gene or something. I truly don't know.
Wow that's so cute, so peanuts will always die? What if they lived long enough to be able to get surgery to fix the defects? or would that not work?
 

Mac189

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Just to update... they were in fact peanuts and passed away at 24 days and 26 days. They were doing pretty well and the day before they passed were super lethargic and went downhill fast.
I'm so sorry to hear that they didn't make it. You took very good care of them while they were here.
 

JBun

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Just to update... they were in fact peanuts and passed away at 24 days and 26 days. They were doing pretty well and the day before they passed were super lethargic and went downhill fast.
I'm so sorry about the babies. That's one of the difficult and sad things about dwarf breeds, having to deal with this possibility and there not being anything you can do to prevent the outcome. But it sounds like prior to the end, they seemed to be doing well and having a good life, which is really all you can do.

...so peanuts will always die? What if they lived long enough to be able to get surgery to fix the defects? or would that not work?
The problem with the peanut genetic issue is that the genetic defects aren't exactly precise and known. You can't just take a peanut to the vet and have them know what's wrong and be able to fix it. And as far as I know, there isn't really any research into peanut genetic problems to help guide possible treatment protocols. Think of it like genetic illnesses with people. Some genetic illnesses aren't treatable because the answers haven't been found yet. That's how it is with peanuts.
 

peanutdabunny

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The problem with the peanut genetic issue is that the genetic defects aren't exactly precise and known. You can't just take a peanut to the vet and have them know what's wrong and be able to fix it. And as far as I know, there isn't really any research into peanut genetic problems to help guide possible treatment protocols. Think of it like genetic illnesses with people. Some genetic illnesses aren't treatable because the answers haven't been found yet. That's how it is with peanuts.

So in the future do you think people could make a cure? I mean imagine having tiny little 1 pound bunnies, that would be so cute!
 

Mac189

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Even if it were possible, the bunnies would have miserable lives plagued with problems and pain. They simply aren't designed to be that way. Typically the healthiest breeds tend to keep as close to natural variation in rabbits as possible. You start seeing issues in the breeds with a predominant focus on a uniquely exaggerated "look" (Netherland dwarves, holland lops, which exaggerate a small blunt, head).

Actual breeders will have a better view of this than I do, but look at the potential issues you find in a pretty standard-looking/sized rabbit (I'm thinking satin) compared to the issues Dwarves have. Similar to the health issues you'd find in a pug vs. a husky dog. One is much closer to the genetic presentation of the animal the breed originally comes from.

In genetics, you have faulty mutations due to a single point error in the DNA or a multipoint error (to grossly simplify). I have no idea which kind of error a peanut mutation is, but there are not yet anyways to treat either error in humans let alone in rabbits. It is generally best for the health and happiness of an animal to avoid as many of these painful and life-threatening mutations as possible. Let's just enjoy rabbits for being rabbits.

I hope the rest of this litter have wonderful, happy lives. I'm sorry you were dealt such a sad genetic hand this time, you cared for the babies very much.
 

peanutdabunny

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ah okay, also is whats the difference from a runt and a peanut? I was looking at a breeder who in one litter had all runts, the smallest staying the size of a 5 week old holland lop. (from the last picture I saw) The bunny is still healthy and not a peanut
 

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True dwarfs have one dwarf gene that stunts their growth. False ones have none, but they are still rather small rabbits by breed. Peanuts are caused by a double dwarf gene. This is a deadly gene defect, they can cling to life for some time but die anyway. Peanuts can be avoided by not breeding two true dwarfs, but a false one and a true one. With True/True you get 50% True, 25% false, and 25% peanuts. Withe True/False it's 50 true/50 false.

A runt is just a small kit, I assume possible reasons could be bad genetics, bad nourishing on the placenta or the doe having problems, some underlying issues etc., runts pop up in all breeds and pretty much are to be expected now and then. Being smaller can make it harder at the milk buffet, but once they start eating by themself many almost catch up with their siblings and grow up rather healthy.

My personal attiutude is that I don't like the thought of breeding animals into extrem and distorted forms just for a more profitable cuteness or WOW factor, possibly causing suffering (like dental issues) on the way, which then sometimes even gets percepted as funny trait, just think of pugs.
 

peanutdabunny

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@Preitler
I didnt even think about it that way! that would be terrible! But aren't Peanuts teeth smaller than normal bunnies? I might be wrong, (I most likely am) I would HATE to cause harm to bunnies (sorry for the caps, but I think it fits, to show that I really hate it) Also I just realized that your are in Austria, which is near or a part of germany right? Is there a German rabbit care form like there are for hamsters? I love to learn other places care so if you could link me to some that would be great :). think its just like learning other cultures, I think its super cool! Like in the UK how its more common (to my best knowledge) for rabbits to be kept outside in hude hutchs. If that is a wrong statement correct me if im wrong.
 

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