Calling all litter "behavior" EXPERTS !!!! HELP HELP... Revenge pooping???

[user 31452]

I have never had a problem litter training a rabbit - and have trained a LOT of fosters- my only problem is MY OWN house rabbit!! Its actually not "training" - he IS and HAS been litter trained - but now that I am fostering for over a year ....he has been doing this - shortly after I started. Is it revenge, can bunnies think like that lol? He's obviously doing it due to the fact there are other rabbits around. He has full access to the whole first & second floor of my house. The basement level however - is where I keep my fosters and where he can't go. (and - its no dungeon!.....they have great accommodations - lots of natural light, I have walkout doors, xpens set up with lots of room & "out' time.) My guy doesn't poop everywhere just RIGHT OUTSIDE his box (AND PEE). I have tried blocking it off (see photo) - and you can see how that worked. I will take any suggestions. I am wondering if I should take him downstairs so he can SEE all the other buns so he knows what he's smelling? I am thinking I might as well try - nothing to lose. But then I am thinking, YES there IS....he might start pooping EVERY WHERE in the house? At least now, he ONLY goes JUST outside his box. Should I or shouldn't I try that?
U G H !!!!!!

 

[Blue eyes]

If his stray poos are confined to the lids beside his litter box, lucky you! I'm surprised he isn't going more places since you have fosters in the home (even if on a different floor level). The photo is adorable! He looks like he has restrained his rebellion! It does seem like he is trying to show you his disapproval of not being the only bun -- but only in a measured way. Sweet boy!

I don't see any hay in the litter box. I'd suggest loading it up with hay (on top of the litter). This should entice him to sit in there (and poo) while he eats his hay. Perhaps that will be enough to appease him and get him back on track.

 

[user 31452]

yes, I feel he is making more of a statement by going LITERALLY INCHES from the box. He does USE the box too (a lot) Its more in than out for sure. Those bins next to his litter box - I just tried yesterday figuring - he's not going to jump ON them to poop - but YUP - he does. Rabbits are very complex creatures. And Smart - unfortunately - lol. I am STILL going to keep trying ideas. If you think of any - I will welcome them!

 

[user 31452]

If his stray poos are confined to the lids beside his litter box, lucky you! I'm surprised he isn't going more places since you have fosters in the home (even if on a different floor level). The photo is adorable! He looks like he has restrained his rebellion! It does seem like he is trying to show you his disapproval of not being the only bun -- but only in a measured way. Sweet boy!

I don't see any hay in the litter box. I'd suggest loading it up with hay (on top of the litter). This should entice him to sit in there (and poo) while he eats his hay. Perhaps that will be enough to appease him and get him back on track.

So, any thoughts on these approaches to try?.....Either a big L O N G litter box (like a cage bottom) - which is counterintuitive to what you typically due during training - though this is not training.

If his stray poos are confined to the lids beside his litter box, lucky you! I'm surprised he isn't going more places since you have fosters in the home (even if on a different floor level). The photo is adorable! He looks like he has restrained his rebellion! It does seem like he is trying to show you his disapproval of not being the only bun -- but only in a measured way. Sweet boy!

I don't see any hay in the litter box. I'd suggest loading it up with hay (on top of the litter). This should entice him to sit in there (and poo) while he eats his hay. Perhaps that will be enough to appease him and get him back on track.

So - since you seem to appreciate the character of rabbits...I am sharing a few picts. The one is a litter pict - I took the bins away & put pee pee pads. He is still scattering poop & pee on them - but at least thats more manageable. The other picts - are ones I thought you would get a kick out of. THIS is why MISTER needs a MISSES.........He doesnt chew furniture - he's just always ON IT . He needs another bun to keep him distracted. He is obviously free roam - one pict is the kitchen counter where he got up and ate (and knocked over ) a plant, another where I grow his cat grass and other is a console table - he had discovered a candle on I have long since removed!!! Oh and of course - UPS. Not like he doesn't have his OWN BOXES to chew !!!!!! So he is obviously ALL OVER The house - and goes back to his box to poop & pee RIGHT OUTSIDE OF IT !!! U G H !!!!!!!!

 

[Catlyn]

Oh wow, your mister is a mischevious one for sure. It's great that he seems to be keeping it just passive-aggressibe in keeping his poops barely outside the litter box.
I do agree with Blue eyes that you should try adding hay straight into the litterbox to entice your sir to go sit in the right place. Also i would think that he may like it more if his box was a bit bigger, like the bins you tried blocking access with? The hay will get dug up anyway but the business is more likely to be contained. Maybe you can try shifting his box into a nearby corner? He wouldn't have anywhere to mismark if he had walls or something on the sides, i would think. My pair has a one-way open-entry setting so no marks missed here, though Storm does sometimes forget to flip his bum in while reaching for hay, and leaves a pile of neat poop right at the edge for me. Their box is a bit too small for two but they have to manage for only another month or so. Iris being a lovely reference for their setup:
Also i would think that it would be better for your boy not to see the other rental residents in case he flips completely and goes on marking sprees.

 

[John Wick]

I would simply suggest a larger and lower-lip litter box.

I find it helpful to remind myself that a litter box is a human concept -- there's no societal, cleanliness, or polite-ness expectations embedded in rabbits that pressure them to only go within the 4-sided containment we have arbitrarily placed in their territory. As humans, we'll use the restroom in whatever restroom is available, regardless of the size of the room/toilet..... While you can perceive this as some sort of sass around you now fostering, it could just be a natural expansion he has taken towards his designated restroom area: "Hey, it's easier for me just to poop outside of this, instead of needing to hop in. As long as it's in this general area, it's still out of my way."

 

[user 31452]

Oh wow, your mister is a mischevious one for sure. It's great that he seems to be keeping it just passive-aggressibe in keeping his poops barely outside the litter box.
I do agree with Blue eyes that you should try adding hay straight into the litterbox to entice your sir to go sit in the right place. Also i would think that he may like it more if his box was a bit bigger, like the bins you tried blocking access with? The hay will get dug up anyway but the business is more likely to be contained. Maybe you can try shifting his box into a nearby corner? He wouldn't have anywhere to mismark if he had walls or something on the sides, i would think. My pair has a one-way open-entry setting so no marks missed here, though Storm does sometimes forget to flip his bum in while reaching for hay, and leaves a pile of neat poop right at the edge for me. Their box is a bit too small for two but they have to manage for only another month or so. Iris being a lovely reference for their setup:View attachment 60161
Also i would think that it would be better for your boy not to see the other rental residents in case he flips completely and goes on marking sprees.

Thanks for the support on this. It certainly is frustrating ...the pee leaves stains on my flooring. I abstained from adding hay bc I have his hay in his "cage" now .... he goes there to eat & it contains it nicely. I may end up trying that - not my next step though.....and....theres NO POOPS in his cage EVER .... NOT EVEN A STRAY - EVER!!! I included a pict of his setup. His cage is never closed (doesnt even HAVE a top on it). Just there for more real estate & to house his hay & water.
I absolutely keep him from my fosters - for several reasons. He is not allowed down there & I don't bring them up here. I have a separate "out" area for then entirely - though I'm sure he can still smell them. I change my clothes & wash hands after dealing with - but he still nibbles on me when he smells them - he still KNOWS they are there. They are most DEFINITELY the "reason" for his behavior - just trying to figure a way we can all coexist . I I did have one setup directly under his area - but on the floor below him , I moved it away & plugged in an air freshener in an outlet under him on that floor below hoping he would slowly give up. That was a week ago & he's not changed. I AM going to try a cage bottom - as a super jumbo litter box & see if he will stay with in THAT. I did try another litter box elsewhere & he just goes on the FLOOR of the original spot. I'm following up with another reply - bc I had another idea? Not sure its a good idea though........

 

[user 31452]

I would simply suggest a larger and lower-lip litter box.

I find it helpful to remind myself that a litter box is a human concept -- there's no societal, cleanliness, or polite-ness expectations embedded in rabbits that pressure them to only go within the 4-sided containment we have arbitrarily placed in their territory. As humans, we'll use the restroom in whatever restroom is available, regardless of the size of the room/toilet..... While you can perceive this as some sort of sass around you now fostering, it could just be a natural expansion he has taken towards his designated restroom area: "Hey, it's easier for me just to poop outside of this, instead of needing to hop in. As long as it's in this general area, it's still out of my way."

haha - yes, very true. Thanks for chiming in. But I have added more boxes NEXT to eachother to extend & cover where he was pooping & he goes next to THOSE!. Again he uses the box a LOT.....just DOESN"T use it enough to make it problematic.

 

[user 31452]

SO my other idea (already pretty sure its a bad one) ..... but I love hearing every ones take on things...... Should I put some of the OTHER buns poops IN HIS box? Will he mark over them? Maybe he will be mad enough to keep claiming his box as HIS? Or is that just plain stupid logic - hahaha.

And I AM going to try to super long jumbo litter box today. I'll let every one know how THAT goes.

 

[user 31452]

Just notice you wrote LOWER lip as well as larger----hmmmmm - definitely my next try. Thanks. I just tried larger - I don't have anything on hand for lower - but I WILL FIND ONE. Thanks. Something this simple may solve! He IS jumping from the slippery floor into the box - but again - I have tried a rug underneath - & that has gotten peed on . I think I am going to continue the shallow & long experiment as well as some other ideas as they come.

 

[John Wick]

I also recommend putting carpeting/flooring-with-traction around the litterbox -- traction = easier to hop. If the floor is slippy, hopping into the litterbox (and hopping out) is a more effortful and less comfortable endeavor objectively, since rabbits do not have traction on their feet like paw pads.

 

[user 31452]

Yes, will need to add (another ) rug now under that larger box - thanks for that reminder. I had to update with this photo - I decided to add a little hay in the box to see what he did ..... He was put on earth to drive me crazy - haha.

 

[John Wick]

You can do a screen on top so eating in the litterbox is more comfy, as pine pellets aren't super pleasant, as you can imagine. Here's my set-up:

Both unwillingness to jump into the box consistently and not eating hay inside of it may be pointing to "It's not nice to hang out in there."

 

[user 31452]

Okay - I just added that to my list to pick up to try - Thanks! I'm all about giving it all a try. The thing that I keep going back to is - it got so much worse with the fostering ..... so trying to figure out what his mind set is in THAT respect. But certainly you made a good point that he brought the hay OUT of the box to eat - so maybe he's confused where he stands lol. Maybe something more comfy , as you put it, is something that will help get him back on track! I am going to order that to try. Thank you every one - these are some thigs I hadn't considered. He can't simply be "out to get me", right ? haha.

 

[user 31452]

UPDATE on my Revenge Pooper!......
Here is a photo from this morning ....Keep in mind that grey litter box is a LARGE litter box - it just looks small in the photo - that whole setup is 4 FEET long. No outside poops - BUT The funny thing is - he is using JUST THE ORIGINAL box - go figure. I put some of his poops in the big green but he doesn't go in it - he just AVOIDS it lol I am beginning to think he IS messing with my mind - hahahahah Haven't even gotten to the screen or the low lip yet - but that is next if things get out of hand any more.

 

[Blue eyes]

What a quirky bun! If he's using the original litter box-- great!

 

[user 31452]

He sure is...... I think he just wanted to see me jump through hoops - keeps me on my toes.

 

[user 31452]

Quick update....STILL on track with jumbo litter boxes lol. And now Misters's using all of both of them. I'm hoping he doesn't wander beyond THOSE.. as John Wick said - its a general concept of area.