Angora problems, need advice.

[Jackelope]

Sorry to make two threads. I just got two REW English Angora does (sisters who were handraised because their mom didn't feed them) who are a year old. There's been having problems ever since I got them. I've had English Angoras in the past, but never had any of these issues.

When I got them, Layla (the smaller one) had runny poop, but it has since cleared up. Now both of them have wool block (there's a thin strand between their poops), though they're still pooping frequently and the poops themselves look healthy. They are both showing signs of discomfort from it (sitting in the corner with their butts up and generally antisocial). Both have short wool right now, having been sheered by the previous owner last week.

They're currently eating and drinking just fine too. I haven't switched their food over yet (have been mixing about 1/8 of new pellets in), am giving them 4 Papaya Enzyme tablets daily, water, and Timothy hay. The owner told me that she feeds them barley, wheat, sunflower seeds with shells, and oats in addition to that, but I didn't think I would need to acquire those right away? I haven't given them any kind of new food.

They also seem like high stress even though they are very used to people. All my other rabbits are used to being in the house with us where there's always noise and activity, but these girls spook so easily I have to keep their cages covered. I have also tried to reduce their stress by letting them in the playpen with tubes, which they love.

When I got them, the fur on the bottoms of their feet were worn down, so I tried putting Whisp (the bigger one who's feet were critically worn, on the brink of being sore) in a solid floor cage. After only three hours when I checked on her, she was completely covered in urine and moist poops. Apparently she doesn't know bot to lay in her own pee. So I put her back in the wire cage (with resting boards of course). I noticed from checking on them periodically that they don't seem inclined to sit on their resting boards. When I checked on them tonight, Whisp's hocks were bleeding and one of her nails was torn out (also bleeding).

I cleaned and disinfected Whisp's feet and put her in a solid floor cage with cushioning to lay on. I also trimmed Layla down as far as I could, but can't trim Whisp right now because she's in more pain and kicks when I try to pick her up. I don't want to force her in the condition she's in. I'm hoping if I just leave her where she won't be stressed, she'll heal up. But I'm worried she'll pee all over herself and increase the risk of infection. I checked on her a few minutes after cleaning and stopping the bleeding on her foot and it was bleeding again. I tried loosely wrapping and taping a paper towel strip around the foot, but she just kicked it off.

Does anyone have any advice? I'm considering taking them to the vet but would like to know what I can do in the meantime, if anything else, or if I'm doing anything wrong.

 

[JBun]

With her hock bleeding now, you are going to need to start bandaging them to protect the wound from infection and also help pad it enough so it can start healing. If your other rabbits feet are also developing sores but no open wounds yet, you may be able to use baby socks to protect the feet. Your vet may show you how to bandage the feet, or this first link shows bandaging a rabbits feet, the other has pics of socks being used for a rabbit with sore hock problems. Also their nails need to be kept trimmed(not sure if this is what you meant when you said you trimmed Layla down), as long nails can affect how they put their weight on their feet.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Mechanical/Pod/Podo.htm
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f27/bunny-trouble-69718/index2.html

Keeping them out of their pee is important too, but difficult since they aren't litter trained. Have you tried litter training with them yet and if so, what is the litter box set up like? It's a bit tricky since you really can't be using the wire bottom cage, but need a way to keep them clean and out of their urine. You may just need to use lots of towels for your rabbit with the open sore, and just keep them changed out frequently. Getting a hold of some Vet bed may be useful as well. It helps provide the cushioning needed, but lets the urine pass through to a towel or pee pad underneath it, so that the rabbit isn't in contact with the urine at all. You would just need to make sure your rabbit doesn't try and chew it up and ingest any of it. I'm not sure if the Vetbed brand is sold in the US, but I've found these two suppliers of a similar product. The Mill probably has the better prices as they are probably the supplier for the other site.
https://www.montereymills.com/Products/PetFabrics.aspx
http://www.lakesideproducts.com/Vet-Bedding-Fleece-c25/

If you are keeping the other bun in the wire bottom cage, you may be able to litter train her by placing a litter box at the back of the cage. You'll probably also want to keep the resting boards in there as well, as long as she isn't peeing on them and standing in it. With sore hocks, you really don't want her to be standing on the wire at all if possible. I don't know what kind of litter you use, but you would want the litter box material to be soft on their feet as well. Placing a layer of hay over the litter helps. It also may help to encourage them to use the litter box, as rabbits like to munch and go to the bathroom at the same time.

It can be normal to find a little fur in their poop when a rabbit is shedding, but if your rabbits are acting uncomfortable, then it may be they need to be eating more hay and fiber, to help the ingested fur pass through more easily. Do you provide them with unlimited hay? If you do, then you could try reducing their pellet amounts a little so that they start eating more hay. I don't have any experience dealing with angora rabbits, but this is usually what I will do for my own rabbits when they experience a GI slowdown. Also keeping them brushed will help lessen the amount of fur ingested. I would be reluctant to be adding grains and seeds into their diet though, as the added carbs will just further slow down the GI motility and make the stasis(wool block) worse.

 

[Jackelope]

With her hock bleeding now, you are going to need to start bandaging them to protect the wound from infection and also help pad it enough so it can start healing. If your other rabbits feet are also developing sores but no open wounds yet, you may be able to use baby socks to protect the feet. Your vet may show you how to bandage the feet, or this first link shows bandaging a rabbits feet, the other has pics of socks being used for a rabbit with sore hock problems. Also their nails need to be kept trimmed(not sure if this is what you meant when you said you trimmed Layla down), as long nails can affect how they put their weight on their feet.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Mechanical/Pod/Podo.htm
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f27/bunny-trouble-69718/index2.html

Keeping them out of their pee is important too, but difficult since they aren't litter trained. Have you tried litter training with them yet and if so, what is the litter box set up like? It's a bit tricky since you really can't be using the wire bottom cage, but need a way to keep them clean and out of their urine. You may just need to use lots of towels for your rabbit with the open sore, and just keep them changed out frequently. Getting a hold of some Vet bed may be useful as well. It helps provide the cushioning needed, but lets the urine pass through to a towel or pee pad underneath it, so that the rabbit isn't in contact with the urine at all. You would just need to make sure your rabbit doesn't try and chew it up and ingest any of it. I'm not sure if the Vetbed brand is sold in the US, but I've found these two suppliers of a similar product. The Mill probably has the better prices as they are probably the supplier for the other site.
https://www.montereymills.com/Products/PetFabrics.aspx
http://www.lakesideproducts.com/Vet-Bedding-Fleece-c25/

If you are keeping the other bun in the wire bottom cage, you may be able to litter train her by placing a litter box at the back of the cage. You'll probably also want to keep the resting boards in there as well, as long as she isn't peeing on them and standing in it. With sore hocks, you really don't want her to be standing on the wire at all if possible. I don't know what kind of litter you use, but you would want the litter box material to be soft on their feet as well. Placing a layer of hay over the litter helps. It also may help to encourage them to use the litter box, as rabbits like to munch and go to the bathroom at the same time.

It can be normal to find a little fur in their poop when a rabbit is shedding, but if your rabbits are acting uncomfortable, then it may be they need to be eating more hay and fiber, to help the ingested fur pass through more easily. Do you provide them with unlimited hay? If you do, then you could try reducing their pellet amounts a little so that they start eating more hay. I don't have any experience dealing with angora rabbits, but this is usually what I will do for my own rabbits when they experience a GI slowdown. Also keeping them brushed will help lessen the amount of fur ingested. I would be reluctant to be adding grains and seeds into their diet though, as the added carbs will just further slow down the GI motility and make the stasis(wool block) worse.

Their nails were both recently trimmed, and I truimmed the one that broke as far down as I could (without touching the quick, I mean). Unfortunately I didn't get to reading your post until this morning, but there is good news! Her feet started healing last night. She hasn't been laying in her feces and urine in the solid floor cage and looks much better. I don't see string in her poop either, though I'm still worried they're both a bit blocked.

We're not out of the waters yet though, so thank you for the advice. I haven't tried litter training them yet because I only got them a couple days ago and have been trying to leave them alone so they can adjust. If Whisp starts laying in her pee again I'll put her in permanently in the pen, which is much larger so maybe there will be less chance of her doing that. And I'll start litter training as soon as possible.

Thank you for the tips and the links!

 

[Korr_and_Sophie]

Put some towels down in the cage to absorb the urine. If you have fleece, you can put that on top, the fleece does tend to stay dry while the towels underneath collect the urine. You might need to change it often, but it can work. Even puppy pads under fleece can work. Just wash it all and it should be fine.

I would at least put a litter box in the cage. Rabbits are smart and many pick it up quickly. Don't think that them being on wire will make it harder, I have had a few rabbits who lived on wire before I got them and they are litter trained. Even some use of the litter box can help keep the rest of the cage cleaner.

I would not be too worried about a bit for fur in the poops. If it is only a couple poops linked together, it is fairly normal when they are moulting. If there is a longer string and more frequent, that is more of a cause for concern. Lots of hay helps push everything through the digestive tract. If they aren't eating a lot of hay, you can try a different type (such as orchard grass) or reduce the pellet a bit.

A vet check is a good idea. It sounds like there are a few issues going on and a vet can help determine why they might be happening and help you treat them.

 

[DogCatMom]

re. wool block from an Angora breeder: see this page

I purchased 1 oz. of fiber from her and can say that the quality of the fiber is excellent, showing that the bunnies' nutritional and health status is quite good.