alfalfa hay for a young bunny recovering from gas

[BerryMochi]

Hello!

I recently got a young rabbit. She's 13/14 weeks old and her names Mooncake! A couple of days ago she started leaving a lot of cecotropes and then stopped pooping. My roommate was giving her those sugary stick treats that have broccoli and carrots in them when I wasn't home. I also noticed that she was ignoring hay in favor for pellets but didn't think much if is since she's still young. She was gassy and didn't really poop so I gave her simethicone and massaged her daily. I also took away her pellets which were some kind of grain we got from the breeder.

Yesterday she started to eat hay like crazy and poop normally again but I noticed that she's lost some weight. She weighted 440 grams on Tuesday and today I checked and shes 432 grams. She also feels like she's underweight ( it's harder to see because shes a lionhead so she's fluffy ) I bought her some alfalfa hay and alfalfa pellets a while back and wanted to start giving it to her, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea with the recent gas and her leaving some cecotropes still. She's currently eating the hay that I got from the breeder, I think it's first cut meadow hay.

Can I safely start giving her some alfalfa hay together with the hay she has now to get some more calories into her or is it not safe yet because she's still leaving cecotropes? Her tummy is still making some noises but it's not as bad as before.

I'm sorry for the messy thread I don't usually post on forums but I'm worried, and I'm still looking for a good vet that doesn't tell me to feed my 13 week old rabbit apples because she's constipated...

 

[Blue eyes]

Eating hay like crazy is good!!! Don't switch her hay if she is eating it. Let her eat. The best thing for any GI troubles is plenty of hay!

In the meantime, stop all treats. No treats or carrots for such a young bun.

Do you have healthy pellets to offer her? She can have small amounts of a healthy pellet (introduced slowly). Don't give her unhealthy pellets. If you have alfalfa-based pellets that are a good brand, there is no need to offer alfalfa hay as well. Just stick with the grass hay -- especially since she's eating it. No need to have alfalfa hay in addition to alfalfa pellets.

Here is a chart to help find a suitable pellet type:
http://www.therabbithouse.com/diet/rabbit-food-comparison.asp?diet=young&sortby=FoodBrand#chart

 

[JBun]

Until you get her transitioned onto a good quality pellet, you could offer some alfalfa hay to boost the protein levels in her diet. Especially if the meadow hay isn't a very leafy green hay, as it won't be high enough in protein to provide the need nutrients for growth. If first cut meadow hay is anything like first cut timothy, it's very coarse and very low in protein and nutrients. So you would definitely need to supplement with alfalfa hay until you get her eating pellets again.

Though do keep an eye on her urine. Some rabbits can have urinary problems when there's too much excess calcium in the diet. So if the urine starts looking thick and creamy or gel like(not the normal thin consistency which may have some white calcium sediment), then a different dietary solution will be needed, one without alfalfa in the diet. Something like a softer cut grass hay or grass based pellet.

Once you get her transitioned onto a good pellet, then you don't really need to be feeding the alfalfa hay anymore. For a rabbits diet, you have to have the right balance of protein for growth and weight maintenance, and indigestible fiber for good gut function. Especially if feeding a coarser cut hay that's low in protein. It's essential to balance it out with the right amount of pellets or a higher protein hay.

 

[BerryMochi]

Until you get her transitioned onto a good quality pellet, you could offer some alfalfa hay to boost the protein levels in her diet. Especially if the meadow hay isn't a very leafy green hay, as it won't be high enough in protein to provide the need nutrients for growth. If first cut meadow hay is anything like first cut timothy, it's very coarse and very low in protein and nutrients. So you would definitely need to supplement with alfalfa hay until you get her eating pellets again.

Though do keep an eye on her urine. Some rabbits can have urinary problems when there's too much excess calcium in the diet. So if the urine starts looking thick and creamy or gel like(not the normal thin consistency which may have some white calcium sediment), then a different dietary solution will be needed, one without alfalfa in the diet. Something like a softer cut grass hay or grass based pellet.

Once you get her transitioned onto a good pellet, then you don't really need to be feeding the alfalfa hay anymore. For a rabbits diet, you have to have the right balance of protein for growth and weight maintenance, and indigestible fiber for good gut function. Especially if feeding a coarser cut hay that's low in protein. It's essential to balance it out with the right amount of pellets or a higher protein hay.

How can I safely introduce her to alfalfa hay? She's already making too many cecotropes and I'm worried it might be a bit of shock to her body since it's much higher in nutrients than what she has now. Also is it ok for her to be chewing/eating wood like apple branches?

I'm sorry for the silly questions I'm just very paranoid at the moment since I don't have a reliable vet for her yet...

 

[JBun]

Is she making too many cecotropes or is she just not eating the ones she's producing? Are they coming out looking like normally formed clusters, or are they coming out looking messy or pasty at all? Also, is the meadow hay a soft cut, mix of leaf and stem, or a coarse cut?

https://bunssb.org/bunnies/guide-bunny-poops/
Just based on your description of her high carb diet, of what sounds like a muesli mix and high carb treats, I would suspect that she wasn't producing excess cecals, but actually has cecal dysbiosis, also called intermittent soft cecotropes/stool. This is completely opposite of excess cecals, which is due to too rich of a diet(too much protein). Cecal dysbiosis is most often caused by too many carbs and not enough fiber in the diet, causing the cecals to not form properly because of a microbial imbalance in the cecum. If this is what's occurring, feeding some alfalfa shouldn't be an issue(if it's a good quality alfalfa, not spoiled). If you're concerned, you could gradually introduce it into the diet over a few days, starting with a smaller amount, to see if it causes any digestive upset. But usually alfalfa hay is pretty well tolerated.

Cecal dysbiosis is usually corrected by decreasing pellets and other high carb foods, and feeding a high hay diet. Sometimes temporarily removing pellets is needed, or sometimes permanently cutting them out of the diet while feeding a nutritionally balanced pellet free diet is necessary for some rabbits. Though when putting a rabbit on a completely free fed hay and pellet free diet to correct a cecal imbalance, it's essential to ensure a rabbit is eating the hay really well, and to monitor body weight/condition for unhealthy weight loss. Also a salt lick needs to be provided because of the lack of pellets not providing the necessary dietary sodium.

https://rabbit.org/intermittent-soft-cecotropes-in-rabbits/
https://rabbit.org/disorders-of-the-cecum/
Here's a body condition chart to assess if a rabbit is too skinny or obese. It's used for breeding rabbits, but I've found it to be one of the better charts for assessing healthy weight in a rabbit, pet or otherwise.

http://ontariorabbit.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/BCS_Rabbit_Final_Approved.pdf
https://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/b...t-or-guinea-pig-is-overweight-or-underweight/
There's only one rabbit vet listing on this chart, for Ireland. But if it's not anywhere close to you, maybe you could phone them for a vet recommendation nearer you, or they could maybe give a consult with a vet local to you. I'm just providing this dietary and health info based on my own experience. But if you have any concerns or are unsure or what to do or your rabbits health, it's always best to consult with a knowledgeable rabbit vet.

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-...abbit-friendly-vets/rabbit-friendly-vet-list/

 

[BerryMochi]

Is she making too many cecotropes or is she just not eating the ones she's producing? Are they coming out looking like normally formed clusters, or are they coming out looking messy or pasty at all? Also, is the meadow hay a soft cut, mix of leaf and stem, or a coarse cut?

https://bunssb.org/bunnies/guide-bunny-poops/
Just based on your description of her high carb diet, of what sounds like a muesli mix and high carb treats, I would suspect that she wasn't producing excess cecals, but actually has cecal dysbiosis, also called intermittent soft cecotropes/stool. This is completely opposite of excess cecals, which is due to too rich of a diet(too much protein). Cecal dysbiosis is most often caused by too many carbs and not enough fiber in the diet, causing the cecals to not form properly because of a microbial imbalance in the cecum. If this is what's occurring, feeding some alfalfa shouldn't be an issue(if it's a good quality alfalfa, not spoiled). If you're concerned, you could gradually introduce it into the diet over a few days, starting with a smaller amount, to see if it causes any digestive upset. But usually alfalfa hay is pretty well tolerated.

Cecal dysbiosis is usually corrected by decreasing pellets and other high carb foods, and feeding a high hay diet. Sometimes temporarily removing pellets is needed, or sometimes permanently cutting them out of the diet while feeding a nutritionally balanced pellet free diet is necessary for some rabbits. Though when putting a rabbit on a completely free fed hay and pellet free diet to correct a cecal imbalance, it's essential to ensure a rabbit is eating the hay really well, and to monitor body weight/condition for unhealthy weight loss. Also a salt lick needs to be provided because of the lack of pellets not providing the necessary dietary sodium.

https://rabbit.org/intermittent-soft-cecotropes-in-rabbits/
https://rabbit.org/disorders-of-the-cecum/
Here's a body condition chart to assess if a rabbit is too skinny or obese. It's used for breeding rabbits, but I've found it to be one of the better charts for assessing healthy weight in a rabbit, pet or otherwise.

http://ontariorabbit.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/BCS_Rabbit_Final_Approved.pdf
https://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/b...t-or-guinea-pig-is-overweight-or-underweight/
There's only one rabbit vet listing on this chart, for Ireland. But if it's not anywhere close to you, maybe you could phone them for a vet recommendation nearer you, or they could maybe give a consult with a vet local to you. I'm just providing this dietary and health info based on my own experience. But if you have any concerns or are unsure or what to do or your rabbits health, it's always best to consult with a knowledgeable rabbit vet.

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-...abbit-friendly-vets/rabbit-friendly-vet-list/

They seem to be formed normally but they are very soft when i squeeze them. The hay is coarse cut. She wasn't being feed muesli pellets she was being fed what's on the picture. It could be barley but I'm bad at telling grains apart. The breeder owns a farm and he gets the food for his rabbits locally. When I removed it completely her gas got better. She was fine at the start so I do think that with those treats she was getting too many carbs. Thank you for the vet recommendation! They are quite far from me but I will still call them and see if they could recommend anything.

 

[JBun]

That is definitely way too much grain for a rabbit. Rabbits need to be on a primarily vegetation diet, hay, forage, greens, veggies, with very minimal carbs or sugary foods. Too many carbs from grains like barley, oats, etc, can seriously disrupt their digestive process, including the cecotropes, which can eventually lead to dangerous digestive illnesses developing. I think once you get her on a good quality pellet, that the digestive issues will clear up.

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits
For now I would include some alfalfa hay(with leaf and not too coarse) until the pellet issue is figured out, provided there are no urinary/kidney issues. Coarse hay is good for gut motility and keeping their digestive process functioning well, but it's pretty devoid of nutrients. So with coarser meadow hay being fed, it's really important to balance it out with protein and nutrient rich foods like good quality pellets and/or some alfalfa hay. The other option is switching to a good quality grass hay that has more leafy parts in it.

 

[BerryMochi]

That is definitely way too much grain for a rabbit. Rabbits need to be on a primarily vegetation diet, hay, forage, greens, veggies, with very minimal carbs or sugary foods. Too many carbs from grains like barley, oats, etc, can seriously disrupt their digestive process, including the cecotropes, which can eventually lead to dangerous digestive illnesses developing. I think once you get her on a good quality pellet, that the digestive issues will clear up.

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits
For now I would include some alfalfa hay(with leaf and not too coarse) until the pellet issue is figured out, provided there are no urinary/kidney issues. Coarse hay is good for gut motility and keeping their digestive process functioning well, but it's pretty devoid of nutrients. So with coarser meadow hay being fed, it's really important to balance it out with protein and nutrient rich foods like good quality pellets and/or some alfalfa hay. The other option is switching to a good quality grass hay that has more leafy parts in it.

Alright, I'll start introducing alfalfa hay slowly and when she's better I'll start giving her some healthy pellets. Thank you so much for all the advice!