Aggressive doe....cut losses now, or hang on a bit?

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wendymac

wendymac

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McVeytown, Pennsylvania, USA
I bought an intermediate French Lop doe, at the PaSRBA Convention at the beginning of the month. She was pretty thin (you could feel her spine when you barely put your hand on her), had a dull coat, etc. I bought her because, when she fills out, she would make a nice show bunny. She seemed timid and scared (I would be too, in a showroom that was mass pandemonium. lol).

We brought her home, settled her into her cage, and all seemed well. After a few days in her cage, she started making this grunting noise and charging towards our hands (when filling feed/water bowls, or even putting hay in for her). We ignored it at first. I thought maybe she was just settling in, and enjoying her spacious cage, constant hay, and pellets. Along with the oatmeal and fresh parsley.

To make a long story somewhat shorter, it's now to the point you can't put your hands in her cage without gloves on. She even charges the cage door (which swings inward, from the bottom to the top). When you get her out of the cage and onto the grooming table, she's sweet as can be.

Is this a temporary thing? Will she eventually stop, when she realizes that we aren't going to take anything from her? Or will she always be a total witch? I had hoped for my daughter to show her (once we get the weight on and a good coat), but none of us are fans of hers right now.

On the plus side, she's starting to fill out nicely, comes to the cage when I get near, and looks really happy. Just, heaven forbid, you try sticking your hand in there. LOL
 
Sounds like regular old cage aggression. Which, in an intact doe, isn't all that uncommon. In the wild, after they've dug their burrows, they need to drive off competing females, predators, etc. In captivity, their cage is their burrow and for all she knows you could be trying to drive her out of her territory or cause injury to her (future) babies, etc. So your hands simply are not welcome. :p

As long as she's not showing aggressive tendencies outside her cage, I'd probably keep her. There are ways around the cage aggression. Keep your fingers out of the bars. Use a hopper and bottle to feed and water her. And use a carrier or box to transfer her to and from her cage. Oh, and put up a sign. "Rabid Rabbit" ;)

If she was a pet rabbit, I'd recommend spaying, of course. But since she isn't you'll have to decide if you can learn to work around her or if you'll rehome her. I don't know if her behaviour will pass as she gets more used to you and your barn or if you could train her out of it. I have more experience with bucks than does.

Maybe someone else has some better suggestions.

Hope that helps!

Rue
 
Having had one cage agrresive bun, sounds like your female is dealing with other issues, its never a simple answer. Think she may not like where her pen is placed. Who is next to her?

And with my Aggresive bun, it just came down to he was scared and you had to spend the time with him, to talk him down (15 minutes to get him out of his pen). Then 3.5 months of sitting with him until he was SURE he trusted me.

You'll get there.. this I'm sure of, just will take time.
 
Rue, thanks again! I know one thing..she makes Max seem like child's play. haha I need more hoppers, which is why she's eating out of of a crock. And I wasn't in a hurry to get one, because my darn barn cats figured out that rabbit pellets are pretty yummy. So I've been looking for the older type hoppers, with the lids on them. I've had to take the small water bottles (bought for the carriers) and toss them on top of the pellets.

The plan, if we can't get her used to our hands entering and exiting her cage, is to get a litter out of her, wean the kits as early as possible, and then probably sell her.

Once I get her out of the cage, you can carry her, pet her, scratch her, whatever. It's just hell getting her out.

Julie, she's not really beside anyone. The Frenchies all live in 30x30 cages, stacked on top of each other. She's on the top. The closest rabbit to her is a Californian doe, and she's about 2 feet away (they're in 24x24 stacking cages). She comes over to you, when she sees you, and looks all sweet and innocent. But the second you actually open her cage, she converts into a grunting, charging witch.

Once spring gets here, I'll be in the barn a lot more with them. Right now they just see me at feeding time, then when I swap them in and out of the play area I have set up. They're currently in a stall in my barn, until spring when we convert the milk house into my actual rabbitry.
 
Oh, and I did make a sign that says, "Don't touch..she WILL bite!". Just in case someone's visiting, they don't get bitten. And that may get replaced with "FOR FREE".
 
If you can get her from PA to CA, you can have her after I get a litter out of her. Unless her attitude changed dramatically, I'm not going to mess around with her.
 
Wasn't aware she was unaltered and going to be produce a brood... Unaltered female buns when hormonal, are a species unto themselves.

My Foster bun I spoke of was a dream compared to unaltered female buns. They, females can be SO nasty. One or 2 volunteers I worked with at the rabbit shelter had the guts to stick their hands into the hormonal female cages; they'd come away with bites, but they'd never take their hands out until they were able to pet the girl in question.. I gave them huge applause. :clapping::clapping:.. But tried myself, and just found the bun got more upset with me being so timid..

Maybe just sitting outside and chatting up would be nice for her at times; other times, use a tool to get her out (gloves, dust pan, etc)...
 
Julie, I read on a site (google aggressive bun and you'll find lots of stuff. lol) that said most that are like this don't like hands coming in straight at them. So I start at the top of the cage and bring my hand down, and she's okay. But I've also been wearing gloves, so I don't jump back if she does actually bite. I'm a wimp, too. haha

Getting her out isn't a problem. Touching her food bowl or hay is. I honestly think it's because she wasn't very well cared for when I got her, and she thinks I'm going to take stuff out, not give her more.

When I'm outside her cage, she hops right over, looks real sweet, and let's you pet her. But putting the food in was a chore.

She's definitely filling out (she was so thin, her backbone stood up, making her look like a triangle from the top), so I hope in another week or so she'll be a bit more mellow. If not, the gloves are right on top of her cage. LOL
 
Katie, that's great to hear! I really like her, and she's such a sweetie out of her cage. And once she's done filling out, she should do well on the show table.
 
funnybunnymummy wrote:
RUE STATED: "Sounds like regular old cage aggression. Which, in an intact doe, isn't all that uncommon. In the wild, after they've dug their burrows, they need to drive off competing females, predators, etc. In captivity, their cage is their burrow and for all she knows you could be trying to drive her out of her territory or cause injury to her (future) babies, etc. So your hands simply are not welcome. :p

As long as she's not showing aggressive tendencies outside her cage, I'd probably keep her. There are ways around the cage aggression. Keep your fingers out of the bars. Use a hopper and bottle to feed and water her. And use a carrier or box to transfer her to and from her cage. Oh, and put up a sign. "Rabid Rabbit" ;

Rue was SPOT on.. Give her a chance to stop being hormonal and you'll find a different bun; that and maybe figure out what makes her happy while being hormonal would be a huge milestone for bun owners..

Figure that out and post back for us all..:big wink:
Click to expand...
 
It might help to have a 2nd food bowl that you fill & set in the cage, then remove the empty one a second later with your other hand.
 
It IS their things that you touch that really upsets them! Territorially speaking. And the brave few I've seen go into the cages, didn't move their hands once they put them into it, just left them there to be chewed.. Was impressive. Then said female had to make a choice to "Bite or Accept"? Was fascinating to watch the bun realize that no harm was to be had.

That being said, I do have a male, altered bun, looking for a p*ssy female for a long term relationship. :)

Also, I always thought "Lops" were the most docile, easy going of buns? Maybe breeding them brings out the worst (that and how they were raised, makes a huge difference). Your work is cut out for you.

Think you have it firgured out. Will look forward to story that unfolds, please post back.
:):)
 
Not surprisingly My brits daughter acts like that. She did much better when we moved her into a flemish carrying cage and came from the top. I know it would be hard to do this with a frenchie. I say try to get your daughter to bond with her as much as possible and maybe after her first litter she will calm down. If you're willing to put up with her and she seems worth it then i say keep her.
 
Ugh! My hubby is going to kill me, but I think I'm moving her into the house, too. Max has the den, so she can have the family room. That way she'll get used to all the talking and normal movements around here, and we can spend more time with her. Well, provided I can sneak her cage into the house. hehe
 
I've had my rabbits for 5 years and I still can't put my hands in their cages. Most rabbits act like this, even if they're spayed/neutered. Their cage is their territory and they don't want you touching it. I only fill food/water and clean when they are running around the bedroom, otherwise I'll get bitten. When they are outside the cage, they are perfectly friendly and loving. I don't think this is something you can "fix", you just have to put up with it.

There are a few options to deal with it. You can distract with treats in one hand while you remove the bowls with the other hand. Or you can put your hand in and just leave it there, without touching anything (if you're brave). One of my rabbits like to give an initial lunge just to scare me, but he never actually bites or scratches me (I never knew this because I always jerked my hand away). Sometimes they just want to scare you, but when they realize you're not doing anything wrong, they'll let you continue.
 
Well, the glove thing worked. She's no longer lunging at my hand, which is nice. And I left the cage door open while I was fiddling around, and would walk over to her cage. She kept coming to the front, so I'd scratch her and then walk away. I even put more hay in with her, before I came back up, as a test. She didn't lunge/growl/snap, which is an improvement.
 
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