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Administrating Baytril orally

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Thumperina

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My bunny has UTI and vet prescribed baytril. As I understood it's the same as injectable one, and they said it's bitter.
I am trying to verify the dosage (the vet didn't seem to be very knowledgeable about bunnies, again:-(
He prescribed 1 cc of baytril orally mixed with something tasty twice a day for 5 days. My bunny is a big one and weighs 7 lbs 7 oz (which I converted as 3.4 kg)
does this sound correct?
 

JBun

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Usually baytril will be compounded with a sugary syrup to make it more palatable. If your vet didn't do this ask them if they can, or if you have a compounding pharmacy near you, ask your vet to call in a prescription to have it done at the pharmacy. Or you can try mixing it in with some banana baby food and see if your bun will eat that.

This is why I suggested the sulfatrim (SMZ TMP). It is also used for UTI's, doesn't have the bitter taste of baytril, isn't as expensive as baytril, and most vets have a liquid suspension on hand to prescribe.

To make sure that your bun is getting the correct dose, you need to look to see how many mg of baytril are in one ml/cc of the liquid solution. Usual dosage for rabbits is 5-10mg/kg twice a day, or 10-20mg/kg once a day. Research has found once daily dosing is more effective for baytril, so this is more commonly being prescribed by rabbit savvy vets now. Multiply the needed dose by your rabbits weight and you will get the total amount of mg that your rabbit should get. Then figure out how many ml of your solution will give you the dosage that your rabbit needs. If in doubt, phone your vet for clarification.
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Enrofloxacin.htm
 

Thumperina

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Asked technician at another place. She said yes, this is how they prescribe it but they also give people flavored syrup to mix with medicine. She gave me some. The smell of it was a tiny bit better than the baytril itself so I went on mixing with apple sauce as before.
She said it has to be twice a day so I will go on with this too.
She said TMP is normally prescribed after culture test as its spectrum is not as wide as baytril.
LEt me check if I administer it correctly. I hold my rabbit in almost vertical position and them recline her a little to her back. SHe is not completely lying down on her back but kind of half way. Is it OK or not? then I insert syringe to the side of her mouth and slowly empty it in several steps. I don't see her swallowing that concerns me. But there is very little amount around her mouth on her fur that makes me believe most ended up inside of her.
 
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stevesmum

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I would keep her vertical and not recline her at all, you wouldn't want her to aspirate.
 

JBun

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What stevesmum said. DO NOT recline her. You can bunny burrito her, wrapped in a towel with her belly laying on your lap, or kneel on the floor with bunny in between your legs belly always facing the floor. Reclining the rabbit on it's back at all increases risks of aspiration. I will also use my free hand to gently but firmly hold the back of the head if they are turning it away from the syringe. But I would first try offering it in a dish to see if your bun might be enticed to eat it on her own and save you having to syringe it in. You also want to syringe the fluids in slowly, giving your bun time to chew and swallow, to reduce risks of aspiration.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Transport/Towel/Towel.htm


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iGZVYVm5Bg[/ame]
 

Thumperina

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I am reading that mostly concentration is 100mg per ml (there is no indication on my bottle what concentration they use). if it should be 5-10 mg per kg, and she weighs 3.5 kg, then I would need to give her 3.5 * 10 = 35 mg or about 1/3 of a ml (or cc)
while I am prescribed to give her a whole 1 CC twice a day... small amount ends up on her fur but not a lot. does it seem like a wrong dosage?
do rabbits need probiotics after AB course?
 

Thumperina

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Another problem - she is not eating as well as before. I have read reduced appetite can take place when baytril is given, I am just worried that she is not overdosed.
I called the vet to ask to send prescription to a compound pharmacy near me but I guess it's so unusual that receptionist told I should just come in (they are rather far away)
I also request to be informed what the concentration of the medicine I received was, but they haven't called me back with this.

I see there are "tasty baytril tablets" for dogs. do you think I could try those? 22.7 mg in one tablet so it's really not clear how to obtain a right dosage
 

stevesmum

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Tasty tablets for dogs prob means liver flavoured or something. Sorry can't help out with the dosing question. When my
Steve was on baytril the vet did not recommend any probiotics. She said they don't do that anymore, but I think vets are divided on this issue still. AnywAy Steve's tummy recovered fine on its own.
 

Thumperina

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thank you. Do you remember how much you were giving and if it was also terrible smell and taste... Was it injectable liquid?
 

stevesmum

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No it was Apple flavoured oral stuff, 15 mg/ml strength. I can't remember how many ml he got though per dose, sorry. They did give him an injection of it though, at the emergency clinic, that was 50 mg/ml strength, initially. Then he had to take it by mouth for a week or so. Wish I hadn't thrown away the bottle or I could help you out more.
 

stevesmum

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And it must have tasted awful because the first dose he was happy about taking and then after that it was a twice daily fight haha.
 

Thumperina

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A few things happened yesterday.
I was picking up my bunny when she was on cement and I saw that she had a bit of urine under her which indicates she is dripping it. It was day 4 of AB treatment.
I went back to the vet as I was out of baytril, told she wasn't eating as well as before and he suggested to completely stop AB therapy because she has upset GI. I told I wanted to continue up to 7 days total (it's not that she completely isn't eating). I also found out that the prescribed amount was about 6 mg/kg which is in the recommended range (on the low border).
I can say by how it feels when I pick her up that she has lost some weight. She was rather big so it shouldn't be a problem, right?
 

Thumperina

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I m really concerned that because she keeps her mouth shut, I am not able to give her a whole amount. I have some spelt on her fur, which means she gets less than she should.
 

JBun

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Her losing some weight is only ok if she is still at a healthy weight and she is getting enough food that her poops are still relatively normal and not too small. If her poops are getting really small because she isn't eating well enough on her own, then she will need to be syringe fed. Otherwise she could go into stasis. Though if you have stopped the baytril, her appetite should return right away.

Since you have run out of the baytril and with it causing loss of appetite, and also since she is still leaking urine, I would be asking to try the SMZ TMP antibiotic now. A 4 day course of antibiotics really isn't enough. They should have given you at least a weeks worth. If you get the sulfa antibiotic, make sure they give you at least a weeks worth, and it should already come in a syrup suspension that is normally used for cats and dogs. For dosage reference, my 1.7kg rabbit got 1cc of a 48mg/ml solution.

If this doesn't clear up the leaking urine, then there is likely something else causing it besides a UTI. In which case you may need xrays done, and/or a urinalysis and urine culture.
 

thumper110814

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After reading what you are going through, that's very stressful situation you are in. My bunny thumper has UTI as well. His vet prescribed him with Sulfa Ped. Syrup form. I feed him with syringe every 12 hours. Thumper seems to love it and would try to run away with the syringe, I think cause it's surgery. He just started it Thursday. I'm not sure if it's working yet because I think it makes him very sleepy.
 

Thumperina

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thank you. I totally agree that the situation is very stressful. Note that my buns are outdoor buns, and most of the time are not confined in the cage... so they are used to a certain freedom, and me, cornering and grabbing her is a big deal for her. She is mad, I guess. And when one bun is mad, others can feel it and would do the same. Plus it's summer time that we all hate (hot, hot, even hotter). I understand that it's only my fault of how thing are run here, and I will be doing some improvements.
Indoors are my 10 birds. That's a reason why I can't bring buns in. Plus some other problem I am running thru. Can you imagine -- one of my birds flew away 14 months ago (we never found him), and recently somebody contacted me saying that they found my bird 200 miles away...the person says she is sure he IS my bird (which is insane keeping in mind our cold winter). All this really threw me off... I can say for sure that the last week was a nightmare.
On the bright side, Thumperina was hungry this morning, she ate a piece of banana and good amount of kale. I am continuing Baytril to 7 days total.
 

stevesmum

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I'm curious, does your bird have some kind of implanted chip? How do they know it's yours? What are you gonna do?
 

Thumperina

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I'm curious, does your bird have some kind of implanted chip? How do they know it's yours? What are you gonna do?
i don't think birds can get microchipped. They get banded instead but no, he wasn't banded. I have some of his old feathers and I thought maybe DNA can confirm it, but no, molted feathers are not good for this.
We compared pictures more attentively and concluded that even by pictures it's unlikely him (there are some differences in beak color, etc). Also the person who found the bird isn't very talkative anymore. What is interesting == they haven't posted in social media, which is strange. Taking into consideration the distance, we don't do anything at this time.

I finally figured out how to better administer medicine to the rabbit. No spills recently. At least some good news!
 
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