Cheyrul
Well-Known Member
Can a 4H bun be spayed?
4 H bunnies
- Thread starter Cheyrul
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LakeCondo
Well-Known Member
To be shown, you mean? My guess is, not. But I wish 4-H got interested in rabbit hopping, where spaying is not an issue & seems like a fun activity that kids would love.
wendymac
Well-Known Member
4-H bunnies, according to our PA 4-H rules, can't be spayed or neutered. The purpose, after all, is breeding and raising meat animals.
MiniLopHop
Well-Known Member
Meat animals? I rescued Gary from a 4-H kid that was going to kill him because he has a color DQ. He's a mini rex and just 3 pounds! Do people still use them for m@#%? *gulp*
Kipcha
Well-Known Member
That's not necessarily fair, 4-H is not only meat rabbit. Brandy, mini rex are used for fur and a lot of 4-H projects are meant to be breed standard. My bet is Gary didn't meet the breed standard, hence he was a cull.
A lot of 4-H kids breed to meet the breed standard, it's not just for meat. We've changed 4-H quite a bit here in Canada, a lot of clubs have been taking up hopping since we started doing it. Increasing hopping popularity over meat is always a good thing.
And really, when their hair has grown back, I don't think a judge will noticed if they are spayed or not. Really, how can they tell? Unless you say they are spayed, they'll never know.
A lot of 4-H kids breed to meet the breed standard, it's not just for meat. We've changed 4-H quite a bit here in Canada, a lot of clubs have been taking up hopping since we started doing it. Increasing hopping popularity over meat is always a good thing.
And really, when their hair has grown back, I don't think a judge will noticed if they are spayed or not. Really, how can they tell? Unless you say they are spayed, they'll never know.
ZRabbits
Well-Known Member
MiniLopHop wrote:
4-H was designed for children to learn about raising farm animals. Cows, chickens, goats, sheep, and rabbits. It's a very good organization for children to learn where food comes from, raise it, and also processes it, if they choose to. And ususually even after the fair, their farm animals are sold or processes. That's what farming is all about guys.
Mini Rex, Rex are also used for their fur as well.
It's a fact of life. And that's what 4-H is all about. Learning to be self sufficient.
I know I'm going to get my hand smacked for posting this, but truth hurts. I give those children credit. They know where food comes from, how to prepare it, and how to raise it. Something lots of children don't even realize. They all think it's just a ride to a supermarket.
K
4-H was designed for children to learn about raising farm animals. Cows, chickens, goats, sheep, and rabbits. It's a very good organization for children to learn where food comes from, raise it, and also processes it, if they choose to. And ususually even after the fair, their farm animals are sold or processes. That's what farming is all about guys.
Mini Rex, Rex are also used for their fur as well.
It's a fact of life. And that's what 4-H is all about. Learning to be self sufficient.
I know I'm going to get my hand smacked for posting this, but truth hurts. I give those children credit. They know where food comes from, how to prepare it, and how to raise it. Something lots of children don't even realize. They all think it's just a ride to a supermarket.
K
Cheyrul
Well-Known Member
I talked to our local 4H bunny person, Tish. In Collier County, FL, the emphasis is on fun, raising rabbits as pets. So locally, altered rabbits and mixed breeds are allowed. Apparently, different clubs have or enforce different rules.
Trigger101
Well-Known Member
I am in 4-H and I use my yellow labrador for Obed.agility ect.. For the local club I am in they show for fun. I am thinking about keeping one of triggers baby's(I already have him/her picked out) for next year. I am allowed to use mix breeds and I have to ask if they have to be fixed or not.
MiniLopHop
Well-Known Member
I was in 4-H growing up and loved it. I showed dairy cows so I knew I could go visit Daisy Mae (yes that was her real name) on the farm, and did. Granted she was just my first but she was special.
I have had arguments with my mom over eating meat since Curly disappeared out of the pasture and we had fresh beef. Even at 9 I didn't want to eat my friends. Luckily as an adult I don't have to.
I do think that the kids that raise animals for sale are smart and tough. Many save their earnings each year as a college fund.
I just couldn't imagine little Gary being worth much as food, his fur is fantastic though. However, I prefer my fur to stay with the original owner
I have had arguments with my mom over eating meat since Curly disappeared out of the pasture and we had fresh beef. Even at 9 I didn't want to eat my friends. Luckily as an adult I don't have to.
I do think that the kids that raise animals for sale are smart and tough. Many save their earnings each year as a college fund.
I just couldn't imagine little Gary being worth much as food, his fur is fantastic though. However, I prefer my fur to stay with the original owner
Cheyrul
Well-Known Member
The bunny, Snowball, I surrendered to the Humane Society because I had too many females, was spayed and adopted Then she was returned because of "unrealistic expectations". Basically, the people adopted her for their spoiled little girl, then said the rabbit bit her. Snowball does not bite. Anyway, it was driving me nuts that she had been returned and was in a really small cage, with pine chips, limited hay and no litter box.
She is the sweetest girl. So when appealing to everyone I knew to adopt her, my sil's niece is going to get a bunny for 4H. The only question they asked were about her teeth, which are good. Hopefully, the niece will definitely take her because I went and "freed" her and now we are back up to five rabbits and my hubby is ready to kill me.
She is so sweet.
She is the sweetest girl. So when appealing to everyone I knew to adopt her, my sil's niece is going to get a bunny for 4H. The only question they asked were about her teeth, which are good. Hopefully, the niece will definitely take her because I went and "freed" her and now we are back up to five rabbits and my hubby is ready to kill me.
She is so sweet.
LakeCondo
Well-Known Member
I'm glad to hear that 4-H is changing with the times. What something was founded for isn't relevant.
Brandy, your experience reminded me of what I read about Kubler-Ross, the stages-of-grief expert. She got her first experience with grief when her parents made her take what she thought were her family's 3 pet rabbits to the butcher & bring home the meat. She was especially fond of them because she was an identical triplet & the fact that she fed them made them like her the best & she wasn't used to being told apart from her sisters that way.
Brandy, your experience reminded me of what I read about Kubler-Ross, the stages-of-grief expert. She got her first experience with grief when her parents made her take what she thought were her family's 3 pet rabbits to the butcher & bring home the meat. She was especially fond of them because she was an identical triplet & the fact that she fed them made them like her the best & she wasn't used to being told apart from her sisters that way.
ZRabbits
Well-Known Member
LakeCondo wrote:
Wow, what something was founded for isn't relevant? Who determines what's relevant and what isn't.
4-H was founded to help youth learn about farm animals. ALL Farm animals at ALL Farm stages. This is the same thing happened to the Future Farmers of America, the Boy Scouts and the list goes on and on. Changes because someone doesn't like or feels uncomfortable about.
Food isn't irrelevant. So hunters are bad, butchers are bad, meat is bad. Who makes up these rules?
I'm not saying agility, and pets are wrong, it's part of it. But only part of it. You can't just block out certain things you feel uncomfortable about. You can't hide this or put it aside. Like it never happens.
Children need to know where food comes from. They don't have to witness it. They need to know. And we do need future farmers out there to provide food. Not necessarily corporate involved. And 4-H does help children on the small country farms. And guess what folks, that's part of it. Rabbits have helped children go through college. Also rabbits have helped people put food on their table from the very beginning of time. It wasn't always, lets stop at the supermarket.
Rabbits are an animal that needs to be honor for their part in this Country. I truly don't know what you people are afraid of. And yes, I've read the story you quoted, and it is sad, but it's not the rabbits fault. That's just part of it.
Shortcomings of parenthood. The real hood.
k
Wow, what something was founded for isn't relevant? Who determines what's relevant and what isn't.
4-H was founded to help youth learn about farm animals. ALL Farm animals at ALL Farm stages. This is the same thing happened to the Future Farmers of America, the Boy Scouts and the list goes on and on. Changes because someone doesn't like or feels uncomfortable about.
Food isn't irrelevant. So hunters are bad, butchers are bad, meat is bad. Who makes up these rules?
I'm not saying agility, and pets are wrong, it's part of it. But only part of it. You can't just block out certain things you feel uncomfortable about. You can't hide this or put it aside. Like it never happens.
Children need to know where food comes from. They don't have to witness it. They need to know. And we do need future farmers out there to provide food. Not necessarily corporate involved. And 4-H does help children on the small country farms. And guess what folks, that's part of it. Rabbits have helped children go through college. Also rabbits have helped people put food on their table from the very beginning of time. It wasn't always, lets stop at the supermarket.
Rabbits are an animal that needs to be honor for their part in this Country. I truly don't know what you people are afraid of. And yes, I've read the story you quoted, and it is sad, but it's not the rabbits fault. That's just part of it.
Shortcomings of parenthood. The real hood.
k
LakeCondo
Well-Known Member
ZRabbits wrote:
And, while children need to develop some emotional callasses, they shouldn't get too callased or could become a bully etc. Parents who let children think an animal is a pet & it suddenly isn't, aren't honest parents.
People today & tomorrow decide what's relevant about the past. Otherwise we'd have children doing down in mines, etc. My grandfather only got a 4th grade education because he had to work.
And, while children need to develop some emotional callasses, they shouldn't get too callased or could become a bully etc. Parents who let children think an animal is a pet & it suddenly isn't, aren't honest parents.
ZRabbits
Well-Known Member
LakeCondo wrote:
Oh I forgot,regular school teaches about being bullies. And how adults, who also happen to be parents, look the other way. Now there's learning emotional callasses.
BTW, if you don't LEARN from the Past, you seem to repeat it. But it seems the present like to change history to their own means."PC" atits finest.
Truly a shame for our next generation.
K
Oh I forgot,regular school teaches about being bullies. And how adults, who also happen to be parents, look the other way. Now there's learning emotional callasses.
BTW, if you don't LEARN from the Past, you seem to repeat it. But it seems the present like to change history to their own means."PC" atits finest.
Truly a shame for our next generation.
K
kjm84
Active Member
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Rabbits can be raised for many reasons. Taking a child's pet rabbit and making them turn it into dinner, is very wrong. Taking a rabbit that was meant for meat and making it dinner, is not wrong. Change is definitely good when it improves people's lives, but tradition is good as well.
LakeCondo
Well-Known Member
Back then, bad old government wasn't so big, so there were no child labor laws. We need to remember the past, so we don't repeat its brutality. Pretending the "good old days" of racism, women not being able to own property, etc were good .... really????? I've done a lot of genealogy & wills until the 19th century had the widow being allowed to stay on the property unless she remarried. Her purpose was to take care of the menfolk & produce a son as heir.
But people can become survivalists if they want.
But people can become survivalists if they want.
ZRabbits
Well-Known Member
LakeCondo wrote:
lol. Love how you twist. Boy that big government now is doing such wonderful things.lol
Thankfully people can and are becoming survivalists. That's what this Country was made from, no matter how much some want to forget.
Regarding the OP's orginial post, it depends which 4-H and which State you will be showing your bunny on what the rules for spaying/nuetering will be.
K
lol. Love how you twist. Boy that big government now is doing such wonderful things.lol
Thankfully people can and are becoming survivalists. That's what this Country was made from, no matter how much some want to forget.
Regarding the OP's orginial post, it depends which 4-H and which State you will be showing your bunny on what the rules for spaying/nuetering will be.
K
wendymac
Well-Known Member
The purpose of 4-H is to promote and encourage youth to get in/stay involved with ALL forms of livestock production. You do NOT have to eat your animal, nor do you have to enter any rabbits in the meat pens. But that's defeating the entire purpose of 4-H. Why not just put your youth in your local rabbit club?
If people are against the "whys" of an organization, maybe create another one? We live in a large farming community. Our youth aren't "callous" or "bullies". They are smart individuals that know where our food comes from. Who can make smart choices about raising that food. Who sell their animals and save their money, that eventually helps pay for college. As adults, they become leaders of our future generations. That can separate the meaning of "pet" and that with "livestock." And yes, even calloused bullying youth farmers have pets. They learn about teamwork, dedication, hard work...and then reap a little reward for their efforts.
And to not divulge that you're showing a spayed/neutered animal is wrong. That's dishonesty. Is that something you really want to encourage in a youth?? The entire rabbit industry is based on honesty. I, for one, certainly would never condone lying/cheating.
I was in 4-H as a youth. Then I was a 4-H leader for MANY years. I'd take any of those "hardened, calloused, bullying" kids over just about the majority of the non-farming youth.
If people are against the "whys" of an organization, maybe create another one? We live in a large farming community. Our youth aren't "callous" or "bullies". They are smart individuals that know where our food comes from. Who can make smart choices about raising that food. Who sell their animals and save their money, that eventually helps pay for college. As adults, they become leaders of our future generations. That can separate the meaning of "pet" and that with "livestock." And yes, even calloused bullying youth farmers have pets. They learn about teamwork, dedication, hard work...and then reap a little reward for their efforts.
And to not divulge that you're showing a spayed/neutered animal is wrong. That's dishonesty. Is that something you really want to encourage in a youth?? The entire rabbit industry is based on honesty. I, for one, certainly would never condone lying/cheating.
I was in 4-H as a youth. Then I was a 4-H leader for MANY years. I'd take any of those "hardened, calloused, bullying" kids over just about the majority of the non-farming youth.
LakeCondo
Well-Known Member
My sympathies.
Kipcha
Well-Known Member
wendymac wrote:
Part of us starting to project was for education. Before our project, if you asked any 4-H kid about rabbits, they would have said they were too stupid for any use other then food, which we obviously proved wrong. I get the feeling that 4-H here in Alberta must be different, since 4-H here embraces all kinds of projects (I've seen cooking, vetrinary sciences, sewing, arts and crafts and I've been a part of 4-H for 9 years myself). My main reason for doing it is that it does look good on a resume, there are a lot of other good things such as teaching public speaking and 4-H has a LOT of scholarship oppurtunities. Many things I do not get through the CRHC that are exclusive to 4-H. There is plenty of incentive.
Not saying that meat is wrong (I, personally, could never raise my own meat though...) and I do realise it happens, I just like to think that I created another option for people who want to be part of 4-H but don't want to eat their rabbits. Does 4-H there not have all the regional and national oppurtunities? My main motivation in 4-H was the scholarships.
I would like to say that that comment was more joke then serious. I don't understand why you would show an altered animal. I see now that it doesn't appear to be in jest, but it really was, I simply didn't type it out right. But there's no real point in showing an altered animal because the main reason for placings is to critique your breeding animal. Back in the day before I really started rescuing and hadn't given agility a go (Although I neer bred) I showed Babbity on recommendation from the leader we had at the time. Babbitty's a registered champion who apparently fit his breed standard very well, so I know how the entire showing thing works. Looking back, there really wasn't a point to it though since I never intended to breed. It's more just for bragging rights, I suppose, since Babbitty was a cull destined for snake food due to his energy level. Showed that you can't always tell what a rabbit will turn into at a young age.
Part of us starting to project was for education. Before our project, if you asked any 4-H kid about rabbits, they would have said they were too stupid for any use other then food, which we obviously proved wrong. I get the feeling that 4-H here in Alberta must be different, since 4-H here embraces all kinds of projects (I've seen cooking, vetrinary sciences, sewing, arts and crafts and I've been a part of 4-H for 9 years myself). My main reason for doing it is that it does look good on a resume, there are a lot of other good things such as teaching public speaking and 4-H has a LOT of scholarship oppurtunities. Many things I do not get through the CRHC that are exclusive to 4-H. There is plenty of incentive.
Not saying that meat is wrong (I, personally, could never raise my own meat though...) and I do realise it happens, I just like to think that I created another option for people who want to be part of 4-H but don't want to eat their rabbits. Does 4-H there not have all the regional and national oppurtunities? My main motivation in 4-H was the scholarships.
I would like to say that that comment was more joke then serious. I don't understand why you would show an altered animal. I see now that it doesn't appear to be in jest, but it really was, I simply didn't type it out right. But there's no real point in showing an altered animal because the main reason for placings is to critique your breeding animal. Back in the day before I really started rescuing and hadn't given agility a go (Although I neer bred) I showed Babbity on recommendation from the leader we had at the time. Babbitty's a registered champion who apparently fit his breed standard very well, so I know how the entire showing thing works. Looking back, there really wasn't a point to it though since I never intended to breed. It's more just for bragging rights, I suppose, since Babbitty was a cull destined for snake food due to his energy level. Showed that you can't always tell what a rabbit will turn into at a young age.
