Need advice from breeders about a Doe I have in foster care.

Hello

I have a netherland dwarf (possible cross) in my care at the moment. She is supposedly about 2 yrs old. Her previous owners only had her 2 months but put her with 2 different bucks, one being a flemish giant. Then decided to get rid of her because they didn't like her personality.

We had concerns for her and she pulled some fur the day she was collected by my friendbut things settled down. I took her to my home as I was in the best position to monitor her and get her to a vet if needed. I couldn't tell if she was pregnant but her body condition just felt wrong. She seemed too thin, coat condition not great, but her belly was big. So we waited...

Friday afternoon she went into nest building frenzy and by Sunday night she was having the babies. I happened to walk in right in the middle and so glad I was home. She had one wriggling in the nest, she jumped out then laboured heavily. Sadly, she then had 2 large stillborns. Healthy in colour so I think died during birthing. There were also 2 kidney-like blobs. I saw her eat placenta as soon as she passed the still borns so Im not certain what these were.

Half hour later she pulled some more fur, went to the nest and began labour again. She jumped out and wasvery distressed. Turns out she had one more and it was stuck half born, in breech.In the end I had to assist. Thankfully, we managed and she settled down again. This baby was also still born. She also ate placenta directly after.

So my questions are: Do the kits have individual placentas? Was this part of the fleshy things I saw or could this have been unformed kits?

The surviving baby is 8cm. The first stillborns were9cm and the last that she had most difficulty with was 10cm. These are large babies right? Consistant with a giant breed? The other rabbit she was with was a jersey woolie but Im not sure what size newborn woolies would be.

The change in the Doe has been quick and lovely to see. She has gone from a fearful, aggressive, very vocal rabbit to asweet, curious girl who is seeking me out. She's underweight I think but we're working on it. She had some very little spots of blood yesterday. Some when she had peed also. I'm wondering if this maybe from trauma and if I caused any damage to her when I assisted with that last kit? I tried to be very gentle but it was a big kit. Im not experienced and never even expected to witness kits being born.

Sorry for the long post. Any input from those with experience would be greatly appreciated.

There could have been trauma when that last kit was coming out and we have noticed stuck kits come out longer than normal births. You can google aborted rabbit kits or fetus if you would like to compare what you saw to a picture but if she was with two different bucks with a long time in between those could have been aborted babies.

As far as individual placentas i am not sure. I have actually never experienced our moms kindling

As far as the length if 8cm for a normal kit im trying to picture it on a ruler but that sounds in the normal range. Kits who are mixed with larger breeds can be born normal or average size but their growth rate will be exponential compared to other babies.

Thank you.

I had considered that she might be carrying 2 separate litters but not considered that these were aborted kits. Thanks, that does make sense. I was thinking they might have been formed kits of the same litter.

I should have posted sizes in inches! So, the surving kit is about 3&1/4 inches, 2 were 3&1/2 inches and last one closer to 4 inches. Im trying to think of some universal object to compare them to that indicates the size better...

The mama has spotted a little more today but I'm told this is normal? Wondering if I should take her to the vet tomorrow?

Any updates on the momma?

I assume there were individual placentas. There are with human multiples.

Large kits leading to birth trauma is one of the reasons a small doe shouldn't be bred to a large buck. Had more lived, she would have had trouble producing enough milk for very long.

I hope the bleeding has stopped.

LakeCondo wrote:

Large kits leading to birth trauma is one of the reasons a small doe shouldn't be bred to a large buck.

Click to expand...

I agree. We were very concerned for her and considering how quickly the surviving kit is growing, I'm certain she was put with the flemish giant. So irresponsible!

The mother is doing really really well. The spotting stopped and she's being enjoying investigating the room I have her in. She seems to be gaining weight now also.

The kit is a biggie! Weighs 4+ ounces (120g) at 6 days old.

katadvokat wrote:

LakeCondo wrote:

Large kits leading to birth trauma is one of the reasons a small doe shouldn't be bred to a large buck.

Click to expand...

I agree. We were very concerned for her and considering how quickly the surviving kit is growing, I'm certain she was put with the flemish giant. So irresponsible!

The mother is doing really really well. The spotting stopped and she's being enjoying investigating the room I have her in. She seems to be gaining weight now also.

The kit is a biggie! Weighs 4+ ounces (120g) at 6 days old.

Click to expand...

Glad to hear Mom is doing well. I wonder if this is her first litter. Most does need to be bred before they are a year old, because complications due to structural skeletal growth after one year old will make it very difficult for does to deliver and kits to be born. Plus the size of the male does make a difference, especially with mixing breeds.

K

woahlookitsme wrote:

Kits who are mixed with larger breeds can be born normal or average size but their growth rate will be exponential compared to other babies.

Click to expand...

You're not wrong! :shock:I still get a surprise everyday I check.

Also singletons do develop much faster and larger than larger litters because it basically wants for nothing.

I think that it crossed with the Jersy Wooly and the 3 bigger kits were just ones that got the double regular gene Big Ugly Bunnies, it would have been nearly impossible for a Flemish to breed with a Nethie without crushing her.

Also we are forgetting that Netherlands do often have problems birthing, we have seen it over and over in the forum.

I am glad your doe is doing better and the bleeding stopped. I am very happy she is raising her kit (you got lucky there). I would suggest if you are not going to use her for breeding purposes you spend the money to have her spayed.

I hope things are going well now.

Could we see some pictures of this munchkin and the momma?

Thanks for your input Corely. Im fostering her and the plan is she goes to a new owner who will have her spayed. If she remains in my care for longer then planned, she'll be spayed regardless. I have bonded with her a fair bit but I think she'll be happiest bonded with another rabbit.

Im pegging her as a cross, with dwarf breed in the mix. She doesn't appear to be a true nethie. Or she's a false dwarf perhaps? She has a small head but ears a tad longer then a netherland. Shes carrying a little more weight now but her fur is still rough. Most nutrition is going into her milk I suppose. She's approx 3 1/2 pounds.

And Baby is 3 weeks old now and weighs 1 pound already Lol! Im glad it's quite mobile now and using it's muscles. It was like a beach whale for a while. Cute little magpie harlequin colour bubba.

Pics to follow.

Im actually wondering if she could be a jersey wooly cross herself. Her weight is right for that breed.

Apologies for the photo quality.







Baby at 2 days old



Then at10 days



And more recently

Very cute! And hOly cow! LOL id say false dwarf or dwarf mix. Glad to hear she is doing better

awwww, very cute. How about a picture of them together, so we can see the relative sizes. Don't want to be pushy, but .......

Very cute looking baby! Definitely a big baby! I'm wondering if she may have been bred to a Harlequin, because the baby has harlequin markings.

Are you going to keep the baby?

Emily

Beautiful baby you have there.

Ok, Mother and Baby. Again, the pics aren't too clear but best I could do with an active bun and no flash

Hi Emily

I don't think I'll be keeping him/her.... Though I said that about one of myfour thatI took in at 4 weeks old. Thought I could let him get to 8 weeks then find him a home. That never happened. He was here to stay for good! There is a woman already interested in the baby so we'll see. I have a soft spot for the Mumma too so parting with both of them will be hard.

Thanks for the pics. They'll soon be the same size & then baby will be bigger. Glad to hear someone's interested in the not-so-little one.