Frustrated with showing..

I have had rabbits all my life, but only got into showing and breeding a year ago. What I have found in showing rabbits has got me kind of frustrated.
One example is I took a JR mini lops sold doe to a show. There were 10 other rabbits in the class and the judge absolutely loved her. Said she was a very very nice rabbit and she won the class. A couple of weeks later I took her to another show and she came in dead last. How can there be such a difference of opinion.
She is now a SR and I took her to a show yesterday. She didn't do well at at the end of the class I asked the judge what she thought I should do. Was it worth letting her get a little older and try showing her again since she just became a SR? The judge told me she wouldn't bother. I could breed her to a really nice buck or just get rid of her.
Later I was talking to someone who has been breeding mini lops for years and is one of the top mini lop breeders. I told him my frustrations and he asked to see the doe. He evaluated her and told me he disagreed with the judge. He told me her good and not so good points and really explained to me what to look for. He said to wait a few more months and show her again. He also told me what to look for in a buck to breed her to.
I guess I really don't have a question here, but would like to hear from others about their show experiences.

Mine is almost identical to yours but in Netherlands! 4 shows in two days and 4 TOTALLY different opinions. The last judge took Oliver, barely examined him, said 'this is just a poor example of the breed' and threw him back in the cage(not gently mind you)... Where another judge, who used to raise Netherlands told me, he his bad points but said to wait until he matured because he was still just a baby and she also commented alot on his good points. She said he is a nice rabbit. Another judge said 'that is a pet rabbit'. Nothing more. And the other judge examined him and pointed out his faults, his good points and moved on. Didn't 'judge' him personally at all.

Being my very first show, I was pretty upset over the results but at the same time, I had a netherland breeder asking me for stud service from him when he gets older!!!

I am SO confused!

Every judge has their own opinion. There are some judges that I trust and some that I will take what they say with a grain of salt. Take for example last weekend's show in Vermont. I brought a very nice castor doe that had just won BOB the week before in a nice class of rabbits. The first show she placed 3rd in her class, the specialty show she was BOV and the second regular show she was RIS out of about 1,000 rabbits. The first judge in my opinion should not be a judge, he cannot tell type at all and usually picks a broken with a pretty pattern no matter what kind of type and fur the rabbit has. The second judge was a pretty good judge but very old and had to keep checking the standard even though he was a judge for years. The third judge was sought after by all the breeders of different breeds because he was a judge that people thought was the best judge there.

When I decide which rabbits to keep too show I base it on my taste. I keep the ones that I like no matter what some judges say. They are not gods and are not always right. In large classes of rabbits they forget who they have up there half the time. Breed for what you like and if they are starting to win you know you are doing something right.

That's the difficult part of showing when you first start out. It happens with many, but not all, breeds. We've learned which judges to value opinions from and which ones we don't.

In our areaCalifornians and New Zealands are very popular and used alot with 4-H and FFA. So there are a number of judges around here who 'know' meat rabbits.We learned that when we have one of these judgesjudging our Tans at a showthat we keep that in mind when they evaluate our rabbits. If you have a judge who has raised your breed then you can learn from their comments. But even at that, judging still tends to be somewhat subjective because some judges placemore weight on certain parts of the standard than others.

I know that with the breeds we raise that as the rabbit grows they can change, too. I showed 4 Himmie junior does at 4 months oldand one of the blues got raving reviews. A month later she didn't judge so well. One of my blacks started showing well. With some breeds you just have to give them time before you know how good they are.

The thing with showing is that it is that judges opinion on that day. A lot can change in a rabbit from show to show especially if they are young. Each judge is different, so can judge a class slightly different. The rabbits in the class also make a difference. You can have a rabbit that wins BOB at a small show, but at a larger show the next week, could be last.
When showing, you are asking for the judges opinion. If there are 2 judges at a show, you can get 3 different opinions and 3 different placings.

You need to consider how your rabbit does at a lot of shows. If it places well in most shows, but doesn't do so well in a few, then you probably have a pretty good rabbit. The not so good placings could be because there are better rabbits on that day, the rabbit is moulting or out of condition or some other factors. If your rabbit is consistantly placing low, then you might not want to keep that one to breed unless it has something you really need in your lines.

Also keep in mind that judges are people too and there are some that you will like and some you won't. Some are really good with the rabbits and will give good comments along with negative ones. Some just don't seem to care to much or could be having an off day.

A rabbit who just turned SR is still young and has some developing to do. You should keep her at least for a little while longer to see how she develops. If you still like her in a couple months, then breed her. You can also try showing her again.

Showing is not the only way to evaluate a rabbit. A rabbit could have something that makes it unshowable, but it can still be a really nice rabbit that you can breed.

I started another topic on this, but it also relates to this thread. How do you get better stock if the breeders that are winning keep their best and sell the culls?

crimson wrote:

I started another topic on this, but it also relates to this thread. How do you get better stock if the breeders that are winning keep their best and sell the culls?

Click to expand...

I brought in stock (yep - had them shipped) from another area.

I live here in Texas and I have some nice rabbits that I got from a very good breeder.

But I was in New England and visited a show and saw some really outstanding rabbits that I really liked a lot. So I arranged to buy two does a few months later and shipped them here. I sent the breeder pictures of my herd buck and asked him to pick two does that he felt would work well for my needs.

Mind you - shipping is expensive (especially if its flemish you're shipping).

Or perhaps go to some shows just outside your area a little bit - that way - you won't be competing with the breeders you hope to buy from.

I enjoy hearing what a judge has to say - but to be honest with you - I prefer to listen to the more experienced breeders of the breed I'm working with and get their opinion on my rabbits. After all - they should hopefully know the standard and they can point out the flaws.

I'm not saying "don't show" (our nearest shows for me are 4 hours away one way)....but simply stating that you might want to try and get the opinions of more experienced breeders too.

This has always baffled me. We all go by the same standards of perfection. So why are there varied opinions of what is "right" in a particular breed. Here, it's pretty much the same judges and the same rabbit or person will win BOB, RIS, BIS, etc. This past weekend the winners were completely different for the 3 shows and the specialty show.

I've also heard certain breeds will do better based on what that particular judge is rasing in their barn at that time.

I've had a problem with my REDS. Only one judge I've come across knew the proper DQ's and color.

I guess you know you have it right when you win no matter what judge you're under. Good Luck

They go by the same standard of perfection, they just interpret it differently. Judges have their likes and dislikes as well. A friend of mine is a judge and I can tell you exactly what she will say about a rabbit. She doesn't like a rabbit that peaks a little early and penalizes that heavily. She says that it throws the hole rabbit off. Other judges like it because the shoulders are usually very good on a rabbit that peaks a little early. It's a matter of preference. As for DQs one of my castors does was DQed yesterday in the first show for a broken toe which I didn't realize she had but sailed right through the second show with it. The judge that DQed her and I were watching the judging and would have said something if she would have won her class. We did point it out afterwards but the judge that let her go through just shrugged her shoulders and said no big deal. They were actually very even in their judging though giving my castor doe BIS in both shows and my otter buck BOS.

Most breeders will sell good show stock but usually have high prices on them. When I started out I tried to buy the brood stock that the rabbits they were winning with came from. I bred my own winners and it was much more satisfying. Those rabbits were past their prime and looked it but were nice in their day and the breeders were done with them. I even bought a few culls because they had the same genetics at the rabbits that were winning. One of the first does I bought was butt ugly and weighed 5 lbs but she is the foundation doe of my otter line and was the grandmother of the 08 convention BOV otter and countless grand champion babies. Don't overlook the ugly ones for breeding. You would be shocked to see some of my mini-rex brood does. They carry the genetics that I want even though they don't display them.

I don't usually ask high prices at area shows for young rabbits with show potential but have recently changed my mind on that. I sell quite a few rabbits to youth for an average price of $50 for a nice baby and am finding out that some of these youth are reselling them for more money. Not cool as far as I am concerned so there may be other reasons breeders in your area are not selling nice stock.

I forgot one thing. I totally agree with Peg about listening to other breeders. I had a couple of mentors when I got started and they taught me about type and linebreeding.

See me and my friend was talking about this the other day. We both are working on the Elops and we help eachother out when we can. She got rabbits up north for me and I am getting rabbits for her when I go up there.

She was at the show last weekend and one thing the judge did that I feel he/she should not be doing judgeing the Elops. The point in the Elops most go to the Head and ears then body. Coat is only worth 5pts. If you have a rabbit that as excellent head, ears, bone and top line. Nothing bad about the body at all. Would you place that under a rabbit that is fine bone fair head and ears? I would hope not but it is happening all the time. I don't know if calling ARBA will help but they need some kind of training or something.

I had a frustrating weekend myself. My daughters and I are new to rabbit and Lionheads, our chosen breed. We have been so several shows now, 2 that we showed in ourselves. When you mix in the huge differences in Judges opinions with the Lionhead working standard, something that is still being developed....it's just crazy Frustrating!

Judges interpret the working standard differently. When you have some of the top Lionhead breeders in the country getting half of their rabbits DQ'd... you know something is wrong! lmao

Is so very confusing for me just starting out in the breed. and I do agree, that other breeders opinions are MUCH more valuable to me at present than ANY of the judges right now.

this weekend... a jr doe we were showing, 1st show, judge said she had a nice break, but her mane was even. (last week same judge dq'd her on the break but said she had an excellent mane). 2nd show, the judge dq'd her on lack of break. ROFL!! - crazy:?

You have to keep in mind, different rabbits develope at different times. She could have been nice as a junior and then developed into the uglies stage now, and may grow out of it.


You must must must learn the breed for yourself. I struggle majorly on telling body type.... why my main breed is Harlies =p... But you will need to learn and understand the SOP for your rabbits. Then you know what the good points and the negative points are for your buns. And what you need to do to improve your lines.

Also, showing against other rabbits is going to move around the table a bit. It happens.