Anyone going to a T.E.A. Party on 4/15? Just curious...

http://www.teapartyday.com/

There aren't any in our area (yet) and I'm not up to organizing one - but I think it is good to see citizens not just sitting back and being upset - but getting out there and protesting for what they believe.

we're not......
not sure i'd want to, but it looks interesting

Not me.

I went to one Cincinnatti. They are getting bigger and bigger each time. Last night during the speech and press conference, it was mentioned the middle tax class tax cut is no longer included in the proposed budget. Reading the budget portions on eliminating deductions for charitable contributions in frightening for those of us who volunteer with animal and human charities. Our local Salvation Armyand food banks feel sunk as donations are already down 20 to 30%.

I would encourage reading more on the Tea Parties and going to one. Would love to attend with Michelle Malkin.

Thanks for sharing seniorcats - can you share a bit about what they did at the one you went to? I'm sure there were speakers - but did they actually have tea bags?

I'm angered by so many things the government has done - like the bailouts where we learn now how its not been helping and you see these huge bonuses still going to the execs...and the more I think about how they passed that "spendulus" (aka "stimulus") package without even having the time to READ THE WHOLE THING. I think that is what angered me the most - they rushed to pass it (without reading it) and then it sat on President Obama's desk for three days or so...why didn't they wait the three days to READ the whole thing??

From what I've been told about the tea parties - this isn't a "pro-Obama" or "anti-Obama" focused demonstration - and in fact, I've heard from people who voted for President Obama who are going to these because they're fed up with the spending, etc.

I'm thinking about checking to see if there is a party in San Antonio and driving the 150 miles to it to participate. Would it be worth it?

Peg, the tea party had a bit of everything - tea bags, loose tea, enormous cardboard tea cups with messages, people in colonial dress, lots and lots of signs. It was a huge rally of over 5,000 people. The comment was made the Tea Party brought more people to Cincy then the annual Octoberfest and free beer. Here are some links and pictures http://michellemalkin.com/2009/03/15/huge-thousands-converge-for-cincinnati-tea-party/ and http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/73369/

One thing I discovered in talking to the 'ordinary person on the street' is that (1) most get their news from the occassional headlines they see and (2) many falsely think the AIG bonuses were a part of the bank bailout passed by the Congress.

Of course the AIG bonuses are part of the 'Stimulus' bill just passed in 02/09 by the current Congress and signed by Obama. Remember, this was the 1,000 plus page spending bill that Nancy Pelosi (D), House Speaker, gave only 24 hours to read before taking the vote.

I simply do not understand the 'outrage' of House and Senate Democrats over the AIG bonuses since every last one of them voted 'yes' on this bill. What is disgusting to me is that Senator Dodd (D/Conn) initially told news outlets he was unaware of the AIG bonuses. Amazingly unbelievablesince he is the head of the Senate Banking Committee and essentially aware of everything the Treasury Dept. does. When challenged on the matter, he then said he knew of the bonuses but the 'administration' - the President, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, insistd he leave the bonus provisions in the bill.

Yesterday, again challenged by the media, Dodd admitted he was aware of the bonuses and he could have refused those provisions but chose not to. Any one can do a google and yahoo search and see exactly how large the campaign contributions from AIG were in 2008 toDodd and Obama. You would have to be born yesterday not to make a connection.

At the Tea Party, one of our Ohio Representatives read a list of Democratic Rep's and Senators who have publicly stated they never read the 1,000 page Spendulous bill prior to voting 'yes' on it. Disgust and outrage doesn't begin to express my feelings. Is it any wonder the grass roots movement that started the Tea Party is now getting massive? As one of the rally signs said, 'You can't sure stupid but you can vote it out'.

I have been reading a part of the stimulous bill every day for the past month and I am still not finished reading it. IMO there are many more stink bombs in it waiting to go off.


http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/browse.html Here is the budget proposal in all its glory. Independent analysis says it will cause the deficit to grow by one trillion dollars for the next ten years.

What is missing in the budget is the promised tax cut for 95% of the American people. Obama campaigned with this as a major part of his campaign - 95% of us were to get a tax cut and the top 5% wealthiest in the country would get tax increases. It isn't happening. There is no middle class or any class tax cut. There are tax increses and they will be for more than the top 5% of the wealthiest. When questioned at Tuesday's press conference, Obama said he would sign the budget without the promised tax cuts.

Troubling to me andothers who do volunteer work is that those household's earning more than $250,00 a year combined income will not be able to claim charitable deductions. There is also a provision to deny these people deductions for mortgage interest payments. Can you imagine what that will do tothe housing market? I don't consider $250,00 income a year for 2 people working to be rich. Those people are far from the top 5% income bracket.

It really is important that every tax paying citizen read this budget though I doubt that will happen. Sadly, ignorance is not bliss.


We will be going to the next Tea party on April 15th.

Thanks for sharing - have you heard the American Tea Party Anthem by Lloyd Marcus?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2H8xHFXC8U[/ame]

What amazes me is I have friends in New England (but not on this forum) who voted for President Obama but are now totally disgusted with a lot of things and they're helping to put on the tea parties in some areas and trying to promote them, etc - yet they've never been the "activist" type of person. In the case of three of them - the thing that set them off - was when the stimulus package was passed without anyone reading it all the way through...and then they started reading about some of the projects in it...

No thanks!
How can you even believe the rethoric of those people, when they are the ones who got us into this mess in the first place??

NO THANKS, no tea party for me!

seniorcats wrote:

One thing I discovered in talking to the 'ordinary person on the street' is that (1) most get their news from the occassional headlines they see and (2) many falsely think the AIG bonuses were a part of the bank bailout passed by the Congress.

Of course the AIG bonuses are part of the 'Stimulus' bill just passed in 02/09 by the current Congress and signed by Obama. Remember, this was the 1,000 plus page spending bill that Nancy Pelosi (D), House Speaker, gave only 24 hours to read before taking the vote.


Troubling to me andothers who do volunteer work is that those household's earning more than $250,00 a year combined income will not be able to claim charitable deductions. There is also a provision to deny these people deductions for mortgage interest payments. Can you imagine what that will do tothe housing market? I don't consider $250,00 income a year for 2 people working to be rich. Those people are far from the top 5% income bracket.

Click to expand...

The money AIG used for the bonuses were part of the TARP fund, which was passed during the last administration. The bonuses were contractual obligations that AIG negotiated with it's employees in Spring 2008, and the bonus structure is a common payment system within the industry. (That doesn't mean I am happy about it, I'm pretty annoyed by it along with everyone else.)

There are actually *many* bills that are voted on that aren't thoroughly read by everyone voting on them. It's extremely common.

In my area, households making over $250,000 are quite wealthy, and do not really need to be able to deduct mortgage interest payments. If their interest is so high, they could buy a less expensive house. People making less than that need the help.
(Even with the deduction, my husband and I can't afford to buy a house, and I'm tired of wealthy people crying about not having enough money.)

I keep hearing the outcry about not being able to deduct charitable donations....... They're CHARITABLE donations. If someone cares about the organization they donate to, they should be donating. A tax deduction is a nice little perk, but the people who will stop giving are the people who were doing it ONLY for the deduction, not out of the kindness of their hearts.
I make far far FAR less than $250,000, and I regularly donate money to things I CARE about. I do not claim the deductions, they were given out of charity, and that's what really matters.
I do feel sad for the organizations who will see a drop in their donations because of this. It is a shame people would stop donating because they can no longer claim a deduction on their taxes.

Hazel-Mom wrote:

No thanks!
How can you even believe the rethoric of those people, when they are the ones who got us into this mess in the first place??

NO THANKS, no tea party for me!

Click to expand...

I'm with you Hazel-Mom!!

I have seen people (including Senators) on tv making statements that are absolutely false, and people go along with it like sheep.

seniorcats wrote:

Any one can do a google and yahoo search and see exactly how large the campaign contributions from AIG were in 2008 toDodd and Obama. You would have to be born yesterday not to make a connection.

Click to expand...

You can also search and find out that McCain accepted AIG donations. (He was the recipient of the 4th largest amount of money from them.) And he voted to approve the bank bailout.

Try reading the Stimulous bill. AIG bonuses are not part of the original TARP fund. Many companies receiving TARP are recycling the money into campaign donations.
WASHINGTON, March 25, 2009 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ ----As President Barack Obama and Senator Chris Dodd (D-CT) continue to point fingers over which one of them is to blame for the stimulus bill's "Dodd Amendment," which specifically excludes bonuses from caps on executive pay, one thing is clear: both Obama and Dodd profited from AIG campaign "bonuses" and an overwhelming majority of Americans want them to give this money back.

According to a breaking poll conducted by The O'Leary Report and Zogby International, 73 percent of Americans think any members of Congress who received campaign contributions from AIG over the last two years should return the money.

This might go double for President Obama and Senator Dodd, who were by far the largest recipients of AIG campaign cash in the last election cycle. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Obama received $104,332 from AIG and Dodd raked in $103,900. Obama and Dodd far outpaced the rest of Congress, as the next largest beneficiary received about $45,000 less than each of them. All told, AIG gave a total of $644,218 to federal candidates over the last election cycle.

The O'Leary Report/Zogby poll, which was conducted March 20-23 and has a margin of error of plus-or-minus 1.5 percentage points, asked 4,523 likely voters: "Should members of Congress who received campaign donations over the past two years from the troubled financial giant AIG return the contributions?"

Seventy-three percent of all respondents say "yes," these members of Congress should return their AIG bonuses. Among self-described Democrats, 61 percent say yes, as do 83 percent of Republicans and 78 percent of Independents.

Sixty-four percent of young voters aged 18-29 years old, one of the President's most enthusiastic support groups, think that Obama and congressional recipients of AIG donations should return them. Seventy-four percent of taxpayers and 70 percent of Americans who have no federal income tax liability also think the money should be returned.

The Center for Responsive Politics lists AIG as the fourth largest contributor to Senator Dodd, who chairs the Senate Banking Committee, giving him a total of $281,038 in campaign bonuses over his career. Senator Max Baucus (D-MT), who chairs the Senate Finance Committee, has received more money from AIG over his career ($91,000) than he has from any other company. The Center also reports that stimulus bill supporter Senator John Kerry (D-MA) "was by far the biggest investor in AIG, with stock valued around $2 million."

Congress may be undecided on how best to recoup AIG's taxpayer-funded bonuses, however, a clear majority of American voters want members of Congress to return the campaign bonuses they received from AIG.

Brad O'Leary is publisher of "The O'Leary Report," a bestselling author, and is a former NBC Westwood One talk show host. His new book, "Shut Up, America! The End of Free Speech," will be in bookstores April 14. To see more poll results, go to www.olearyreport.com.

SOURCE The O'Leary Report

http://www.olearyreport.com

Here's the list of top AIG recipients for the 2008 campaign:

1. Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., $103,100
2. Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., $101,332
3. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., $59,499
4. Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., $35,965
5. Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., $24,750
6. Former Gov. Mitt Romney, (R) Pres $20,850
7. Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., $19,975
8. Rep. John Larson, D-Conn, $19,750
9. Sen. John Sununu, R-N.H., $18,500
10. Former Mayor Rudolph Giuliani (R) Pres $13,200
11. Rep. Paul Kanjorski, D-Pa., $12,000
12. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., $11,000

BethM wrote:

I keep hearing the outcry about not being able to deduct charitable donations....... They're CHARITABLE donations. If someone cares about the organization they donate to, they should be donating. A tax deduction is a nice little perk, but the people who will stop giving are the people who were doing it ONLY for the deduction, not out of the kindness of their hearts.
I make far far FAR less than $250,000, and I regularly donate money to things I CARE about. I do not claim the deductions, they were given out of charity, and that's what really matters.
I do feel sad for the organizations who will see a drop in their donations because of this. It is a shame people would stop donating because they can no longer claim a deduction on their taxes.

Click to expand...

I give to charity for a number of reasons: it's the right thing to do, I want to support others in need, because I can and on. The tax deduction is more than 'a nice little perk'. The way i look at it, my money can go to a good charitable cause rahter than to the federal govt'.

Here is my own example: Greg has been working the taxes and grumbling for a week about 'you and charitable deductions'. I keep detailed, itemized receipts required for the IRS. We file married/filing seperately. In 2008 I gave $5,500 to the S-A-W Shelter. Usually I give $3,000 to $4,000 ayear to S-A-W but I received a small inheritance (4,0008) and split it between charities plus bought new lingerie (Whoop-te-do!), Another $4,000 was given to our church for the following: to support the men's homeless shelter by purchasing underwear and personal care items, to prepare and deliver crisis care kits. These go to victims of natural disasters around the world and contain personal care essentials for 2 people costing about $30 for each kit, to the emergency food pantry.Another $800 was given to Salvation Army - actually goods purchased - cases of toilet paper, tooth paste, soap, tooth brushes. These are things SA provides to people which they cannot purchase with Food Stamps.

Please note that I am far from rich. In fact, I am retired and no longer earning. The same for my husband. If I were still working, I would give more as I believe all employed people should do.

I get a much needed tax deduction. I get a small federal and state refund back. Last year I received $120 from the feds and a giant$34 from the state. This year I will get about $150 from the feds and will owe the state around $85.

If I did not get a tax deduction, I simply could not afford to give $10,000 ayear to charities. Why? Because i would then have to pay close to an equivilent amount in taxes and there is no way I can afford $20,000 a year, half to charity and half to taxes, even if spread out over 12 months.

Guess what??? My charitable deductions will have to be cut in 1/2 to accomodate the taxes. Where will I make the cut? In the donation to the human charitiesfor a number of personal reasons.

That's just one very small scale situation. Charities will be hurtsimply because people cannot afford to contribute and then pay out an equvilent sum in taxes. not because people are too bleeping cheap to contribute.

As far as representatives not reading a bill that spent one trillion dollars. It's utterly unconscionable.

seniorcats wrote:

BethM wrote:

I keep hearing the outcry about not being able to deduct charitable donations....... They're CHARITABLE donations. If someone cares about the organization they donate to, they should be donating. A tax deduction is a nice little perk, but the people who will stop giving are the people who were doing it ONLY for the deduction, not out of the kindness of their hearts.
I make far far FAR less than $250,000, and I regularly donate money to things I CARE about. I do not claim the deductions, they were given out of charity, and that's what really matters.
I do feel sad for the organizations who will see a drop in their donations because of this. It is a shame people would stop donating because they can no longer claim a deduction on their taxes.

Click to expand...

I give to charity for a number of reasons: it's the right thing to do, I want to support others in need, because I can and on. The tax deduction is more than 'a nice little perk'. The way i look at it, my money can go to a good charitable cause rahter than to the federal govt'.


That's just one very small scale situation. Charities will be hurtsimply because people cannot afford to contribute and then pay out an equvilent sum in taxes. not because people are too bleeping cheap to contribute.

Click to expand...

$10k/year is one third of what I make, so I still have little sympathy. I give a few dollars here and there, where I can, as does my husband. We cannot afford to give enough to itemize it, even with a tax deduction. I already know that I will not be receiving any sort of inheritance from anyone in my family, they don't have anything to leave. The money I donate is because I care about the organizations I donate to.

I actually have stopped giving to two charities, not due to taxes or the economy, but because of their policies:

I used to give a lot of things both to Goodwill, and to a large food pantry here. About two years ago, my husband and I took some things to Goodwill, and found they changed their donation policy so that you have to wait while they look through your stuff, and if they don't want it they won't take it. They told him a computer monitor, which worked perfectly fine, was too old, and they only wanted flat panels. They told me a waist-high plastic storage thing (the kind with the drawers) was unsellable, even though it was clean and unbroken. They rifled through the clothes, and rejected some things saying they were "out of style." They would not allow us to dispose of the rejected things in their dumpster. (We put the monitor out by our own dumpster, and someone took it before the day was up; the storage unit and clothes all sold at our yard sale later that year. Not so unsellable, I guess.) Also, on the weekends when they're busy, you have to wait in line in your car until they get to you. I no longer take anything to them, I'll sell it at a yard sale myself.

Similarly, I used to give stuff to the food pantry program. There are several, but there is one big one here that sets up collection sites all over. Then, I heard one of their representatives on the radio telling people they did not want generic items, because no one wants to be made to feel bad by receiving the store brand canned veg instead of the name brand. At that time, I was working 2 jobs, averaging 13-hour days, just to make ends meet, and had been doing so for 5+ years. I buy a lot of generic/store brand stuff, because that is what I can afford. I was (and still am, actually) extremely insulted, and will not donate to them again.

BethM wrote:

$10k/year is one third of what I make, so I still have little sympathy.

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Really? $10K is a little less than a 1/3 of my straight retirementbenefit and I still give so I have little understanding for your point of view.

Of course I should add that retirement benefit isn't my only source of income. I started my own retirement fund at age 23, a giant $10 every 2 weeks set aside in an untouchable fund. After 2 years I made a game of seeing how I could pare down my expenses and live on 1/2 a pay check. It's simple - do with less and some personal responsibility.

When we married, we lived on pay check and banked the 2nd. We both worked 2 jobs for a while to save more -me at a vet clinis and Greg teaching philosphy. 16 hour days were never fun but we were single minded and had goals. After 3 years of marriage we made a 30% down payment on a house and continued to have an untouchable retirement fund. We paid off the 30 yea mortgage in 12 years. We rarely use credit cards and keep our cars for 10-12 years . Any one can do it by exercising some personal responsibility.

We never touched that money except to invest in low risk and some moderate risk investments inspite of major illnesses like cancer and autoimmune disease and major family emergencies. Wht we have we earned without a single handout form any one. I detest socialist nanny states where the seemingly helpless and certainly lazy citizenry wants thier every demand met, their diapers changed and every aspect of their lives arranged by the governement. We worked for what we have for over 30 years and we refuse to allow a Marxist leaning state to put thier hands in our pockets to 'redistrubute' to those who are too lazy, too irresponsible, too unmotivated too busy spending someone else's money, to busy whiningtotake care of themselves.

seniorcats wrote:

BethM wrote:

$10k/year is one third of what I make, so I still have little sympathy.

Click to expand...

Really? $10K is a little less than a 1/3 of my straight retirementbenefit and I still give so I have little understanding for your point of view.

Click to expand...

Donating an inheritance isn't the same as donating 1/3 of your regular income.

There is no way I could ever afford to give 1/3 of my gross income. Doing this would mean not eating. Actually, that's twice what I spend on groceries in a year, so it would be not eating and not paying my rent.
After deductions to my pay, rent, car payment, insurance, gas, groceries, utilities, and medications, I am usually near break even. (Actually, I just traded in my car, so my gas expenses were cut in half, so that's good. I could have benefitted myself by spending the same amount on a new car, so I could have gotten the tax break on it. But I chose a high quality, environmentally responsible used car instead.) I do take 4 medications, and even though I have insurance through work, I cannot afford to go to the doctor for a couple other medical issues I have. (Severe acid reflux, and arthritis go untreated because managing my allergies is all I can afford.)

My point, which I didn't write in my previous post because I was on break at work and in a hurry.......I make very little money. I still find money here and there to give to charities. (I mainly give to Habitat for Humanity, JDRF, and the Salvation Army bell ringers at Christmas. My husband and I both give to our rabbit rescue.) I receive absolutely no tax benefit for the money I give. (Because I am unable to itemize deductions, I take the standard deduction. I get the same deduction if I donate or not.) Anyway, I find money to donate without a financial compensation. So people who are making more than $250k/year should quit whining about not being able to deduct their donations. If I can donate, they can too at 8x my pay.

And, by the way, I DO know people who would stop donating to charities if they couldn't claim the deduction. They ARE that bleeping cheap.

seniorcats wrote:

Of course I should add that retirement benefit isn't my only source of income. I started my own retirement fund at age 23, a giant $10 every 2 weeks set aside in an untouchable fund. After 2 years I made a game of seeing how I could pare down my expenses and live on 1/2 a pay check. It's simple - do with less and some personal responsibility.

When we married, we lived on pay check and banked the 2nd. We both worked 2 jobs for a while to save more -me at a vet clinis and Greg teaching philosphy. 16 hour days were never fun but we were single minded and had goals. After 3 years of marriage we made a 30% down payment on a house and continued to have an untouchable retirement fund. We paid off the 30 yea mortgage in 12 years. We rarely use credit cards and keep our cars for 10-12 years . Any one can do it by exercising some personal responsibility.

We never touched that money except to invest in low risk and some moderate risk investments inspite of major illnesses like cancer and autoimmune disease and major family emergencies. Wht we have we earned without a single handout form any one. I detest socialist nanny states where the seemingly helpless and certainly lazy citizenry wants thier every demand met, their diapers changed and every aspect of their lives arranged by the governement. We worked for what we have for over 30 years and we refuse to allow a Marxist leaning state to put thier hands in our pockets to 'redistrubute' to those who are too lazy, too irresponsible, too unmotivated too busy spending someone else's money, to busy whiningtotake care of themselves.

Click to expand...

Well, my about 30k (gross) is my only income. I have never in my life had a savings account, there never is enough left over. I do have a student loan that I haven't been able to pay anything on, and even though I have a 4-year degree, it is difficult to find a good-paying job. My only savings is my 401k, and that's not worth much of anything right now. I already watch for sales, use coupons, and buy generic. I buy bulk and/or raw ingredients to make my own stuff rather than buy pricey pre-packaged things. I do spend more for local and/or organic food, but that results in cutting back in other areas to even it out. Even though I don't have a single pair of pants that actually fits me, I have not bought new clothes in a year. There isn't much more paring back I can do here.
I have started saving $20/paycheck, though I can't open a savings account at my bank until I've got $500. (I started this when they announced the Make Work Pay tad credit thing, even though it won't start until next month. This is how much "extra" should be on my check. The gov't spread it out like that so people would be more likely to spend it, but I am saving it instead.)

When I was working a second job, it cost me just about everything I was making "extra" in gas.

My husband makes a fair amount more than I do, but we keep our finances separate. He has some investments, but I do not know how much. We split all of the household expenses 50/50, and each buy our own groceries. So, he is pretty comfortable while I struggle a bit. We each have only one credit card, and try not to use them. He does pick up most of the rabbit expenses (I pay for salad and toys, he pays for everything else), and he takes me out to eat once a week. He paid for our honeymoon and wedding out of an inheritance from his grandmother. We carpool to work.
Jason was driving a 10-year old car, but he did get a brand new car last summer, because his other one was stolen out of our apartment parking lot.
I just traded in my 5-year old car, but my car payment is the same, my insurance went down, and my gas costs were literally cut in half. Plus, it's a car that will last longer than the one I had.

My grandmother (age 86) still has to work to make ends meet, and my mom makes barely over minimum wage, and is actually hoping to die young because she will not be able to retire. I grew up eating government-issued cheese, sorry if that handout offends you.

Personally, I would be more than happy to pay higher taxes and know that I could go to the doctor when I needed to. As it is, even with insurance I cannot afford to take care of all my medical issues. (Really, we all pay the health costs for the un- and under-insured, I don't understand what is so awful about streamlining the medical system and improving overall health care. We pay for it anyway.)

What I can't stand is arrogant wealthy people who think they're so much better than everyone else, and who don't want to contribute to society as a whole because they're so worried about only themselves. I see wealthy people getting tax breaks and working the system, all the while crying about how they can't afford to live. I work hard, too.

I keep hearing people decrying the "Francification of America." Well, to me that means people get paid a fair wage and can afford medical care when they need it. Anyone who thinks that is a bad thing are just full of themselves.