Perplexed and stumped

Ok, this will take a little explaining:

Hershey is about 1.5 years old, neutered. I've had him for over a year. He has always been a cuddle bun, until about a month or so ago. He will still let me pick him up, but in about 3 seconds he'd be digging at me to get down. I'd put him down and a few minutes latter he'd be at my feet wanting some more cuddling, then...

He seems like he's enjoying his cuddling, but then suddenly he'll like startle and want to get down.

Now, there's another recent twist, but I don't know if it's related. Most of the day yesterday dh and I were working in the yard. Hershey has an outside run attached to his room, so he can go in and out whenever. I would see him outside and talk to him etc. Dh was nearby, and his project was making a lot of noise, so Hershey seemed to stay inside more than usual.

As it starts to get dark, he always comes in and sleeps in his box. I come down and close and lock the door, so he can't go out until morning. Last night I couldn't find him anywhere! I searched and called, no reaction. He sometimes comes when I call, but he always would let me know where he was by throwing something, chewing something etc. I began to panic and thought maybe somehow he has gotten out of his enclosure. I got a flashlight and searched and called all around the yard. Nothing.

I called in sick to work this a.m. and searched the woods and the yard again. Nothing. I starting walking back to the house, and there was Hershey, sitting in his enclosure sunning himself! He must have been in the tunnel he dug all night long. I was overjoyed of course. I went running through the house and into his room but as soon as I opened the door to the outside, he zoomed away from me and went into his tunnel.

He has been there ever since. He has never hid in his tunnel this long. He always comes out when he hears me. He hasn't had anything to eat or drink since disappearing last night.

Are the two things connected? Or separate issues? Did something spook him real bad yesterday, and that's why he won't come out?

I think there are two things at work here:

First, if he's really been a free bun lately its possible hes becoming a little more "wild" in the sense that hes more independent and less likely to want to be around you. I would think limited his outdoor time to maybe just an hour or so a day or supervised run time would help that. Maybe do it at a time when you can sit with him and talk to him. I think hes becoming a little detached from you if he has so much time on his own to be a free bunny.

Second, with the more recent hiding out and not eating, it might be he hasa little gas or another problem right now thats causing him to hide out. Most bunnies will hide when they dont feel well (their wild instinct kicking in). I would keep him inside where you can get to him for now, so you can be sure he's eating and pooping. I would also check him over and make sure he's not hurt anywhere thats causing him a bit of pain.

golfdiva wrote:

He will still let me pick him up, but in about 3 seconds he'd be digging at me to get down. I'd put him down and a few minutes latter he'd be at my feet wanting some more cuddling, then...

He seems like he's enjoying his cuddling, but then suddenly he'll like startle and want to get down.

He has been there ever since. He has never hid in his tunnel this long. He always comes out when he hears me. He hasn't had anything to eat or drink since disappearing last night.

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From what Haley suggests andthe two points of your own it all makes sense; He wants you but is uncomfortable and is trying to hidie from his problem.. Update soon as I'm curious as well what it is...

Thanks for the replies, those points make a lot of sense!

Unfortunately, I can't get him to come out of his tunnel! I kept thinking he'd come out when he was hungry or thirsty, but he won't! Finally around 4 this pm, I put some of his favorite clover near the enterance of the tunnel. His little white nose peaked out and he started eating like crazy! Making his happy grunting noise as he ate. I could talk to him, and that was ok, but if I tried to get closer to him he'd go right back into the tunnel.

When I got home tonight, I put some pellets by the hole, and he came out and ate some of them, but again, I couldn't get close to him. So at least he's eating, but I don't know if he's pooping!

And I thought the worry was over when I found him!

just a thought, i'm not sure how it'd work.. but perhaps you could leave Hershey's pellets in a trail, leading away from his tunnel. Meanwhile, you sit near the entrance to his tunnel and use something to quickly block it once Hershey moves away from it?
i'm as curious as julie is over why Hershey's acting in such a manner.. i hope he's ok

Is there anything inside the tunnel that he could be "protecting"?

Mikoli wrote:

Is there anything inside the tunnel that he could be "protecting"?

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Interesting thought! I have no idea what that might be. It would have to be something frominside his pen.

Well the good news is, I got him out and he's inside, in his room now. The bad news is he's still acting really weird!

After work this pm, I repeated putting food near the tunnel enterance, a little farther away. He came out and ate it. Even let me touch him, but I didn't dare make a grab. I went back inside to get some Craisins, and when I opened the door he was right there, and took off like a rocket. This time I called his name and he stopped running. I kept talking and he didn't leap down the tunnel. When I rattled the Craisins bag he looked very interested. I got one out and reached out, he came and took it. I got out another and he came all the way over to me and I was able to pick him up. I quickle gave him the Craisin, went in the house and closed the door!

He hops around his room in that nervous, scared, exploring way, like he's never been here before. He found his box and hid in it, so I went away for a couple of hours. When I came back down he was in his box, but some of his food was gone, so he must come out.

I was able to coax him out of his box, but he still has that scared, tentitive manner. He wil come near me, but doesn't want me to touch him. He used to let me scratch his face as long as I was willing!

He acts like a totally different bunny! I don't see any injury. Can bunnies have strokes?

I'm thinking of bringing him to the vet, but he's so nervous and in the absence of any obvious injury or illness, I'm worried that would just stress him more.

Do you have a way to look into the tunnel? A metal snake with a camera attached (like plumbers use) to see if there is anything down there? I would think after watching him for a bit (as he is eating - is their poo?) that you can then decide on the Vet.. Go over the checklist:

Eating?

Pooing?

Peeing?

Grinding teeth to much?

weird gurgling noise?

He might be dehydrated (watch his water intake).

if you can give him an all over check (can you look at his teeth)?

Wow you have a stumper of a problem.. Keep posting updates and am SOOOOO Glad he is back inside in a "closed enviroment"..

Im so glad you got him out of that tunnel and inside where you can watch him. Is he pooping still? Is he straining at all when he urinates?

If I were you I would pick him up and examine him yourself first. Feel his belly to see if it feels bloated or distended, or if you hear any gassy noises. Then I would sort of check all over- feel his feet and nails and check his teeth and ears. See if you can see anything out of the ordinary.

If you cant find anything wrong and hes still eating and pooping normally I think I would still keep an eye on him (and keep him inside for now). One thing that could cause this behavior is if he was spooked or if something like a large animal came up to his enclosure and really frightened him. He could just be really scared.

Let us know how hes doing today.

I couldn't stand it so I brought him to the vet during my lunch hour today. He gave Hersh a good going over, teeth, eyes, ears, nose, heart, lungs, gut, temp. etc. Hersh spent the morning in his carrier and he had pooped and peed in there,but the vet couldn't find anything unusual. The only suggestion he could make was maybe a hairball, and gave me some "Cat Lax" med. to give Hersh every 4 days. He told me to call back if there are any changes or if I have any questions.

At the vet's he did suddenly decide he loved me afterall, and wanted very much to "cuddle" w/ me! Lol!

He is back in his room now, hiding, but at least I know he isn't sick. "Spooked" is exactly the way he acts, but if he was spooked on Monday afternoon, it seems to me he should be getting over it by now. If he didn't have someone to serve him fresh greens and pellets everyday he'd be starved by now!

Oh, I did see yesterday the neighbor's "barn" cat around again. Would a cat be able to spook him like that?

Im so glad to hear he's ok! It definitely could be that he was spooked by the cat, especially if the cat was stalking him or trying to get in or something.

As for the Cat Lax, what is in it? If its a cat laxative for hairballs, I definitely wouldnt give that to him. Rabbits dont get hairballs the way cats do, and giving them something like that can actually coat the stomach and make things worse from what Ive read. I'll look around and see if I can find any info on using this product on bunnies. For now, I would just give him loads of hay to chow down on and lots of water.

Hoping our Hershey boy is back to normal!

Haley

cat lax - a palatable formula for the elimination and prevention of hair balls in cats - from Pharmadem

Ingred: cod liver oil, caramel, lecithin, malt syrup, white petrolatum, 0.1% sodium benzoate, (preservative), Vitamin E (di-alpha tocoperyl acetate equivalent to 0.033mg/g d-alpha tocopherol) (antioxidant). purified water



tx!

Yay!! I've been trying to get a chance to check in and see and am SO glad got the lil bugger! And as far as getting scared, when Baxter! was caught outside in that thunderstorm last week - when I got him off the patio he jumped into my arms, when I got him down to the bedroom and was going to put him in his NIC pen so that I could go out and gather his hay and food - he "punched" me! Gave me like good right cross with his front paw (as I was holding him - he couldn't kick with with his back legs).. Had always "heard" of buns punching one another and couldn't visualize it but - its a boxing move and I realized even though I had spent a good hour holding and soothing him - he was going to be cranky for sometime.. lol; took a good 5 days for him to get back to his normal attitude, so give it sometime..

My Vet (who is bun crazy and his clinic is always full of buns) had told me that Baxter! could have Petromalt if he started to show any hairball problems (constipation)while going through his molt... So far so good, but I'd ask you Vet and see (you never know)..

I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread, but I really don't recommend using cat laxatives on rabbits. Some vets still use them, but many of the more up-to-date vets don't. They can actually cause more problems with any blockages because they coat it and prevent water from getting in and softening the mass. None of the three rabbit vets at my clinic recommend using cat laxatives for rabbits.

Does he like canned pumpkin? The water and fiber in it tend to act as a minor, rabbit-safe laxative. Most buns really like it. I feed it both as a treat and for treatment/prevention of blockages when the buns are molting.

My guess is that he had a bad scare. Mocha is absolutely terrified of the sight of my cats so yes a wandering cat could scare him. Fey and Sprite once panicked at the smell of the neighbor's cat on our front porch (they were near the door) and were terrified for a day or two.

Hi,

Only have a sec here but just wanted to offer my non-professional opinion. Cat Lax and similar products are designed for cats. Cats are obligate carnivores...rabbits are obligate herbivores. The dynamics in each digestive system is totally different. Rabbits do not get true hairballs. They do get impactions which results in a condition called stasis and a more serious event known as ileus. The Cat Lax will compact and dehydrate the impaction in a rabbit...the exact opposite of what is needed. I doubt your problem here is a "hairball"....and if it were, under some conditions the use of this laxative typeproduct will result in a more serious problem. I will try to post a more detailed response later.

Randy

wow good to know NaturesTree and Randy.. thanks for educating us!

I did some online research, and yeah, cat lax is NOT for rabbits! Why do I pay extra for an exotic vet? I could get bad advice at a much cheaper cost!

The "head" vet at this practice, I know is good. He neutered Hershey. But this was one of the other vets in the practice. I want them to know that I got some bad advice there. What would be a good way of educating them w/o alienating them? Should I contact the vet that owns the practice? A phone call? A letter?

Thanks for everyone's help! I was discussing Hershey with some friends, and I realized, due to some subtle changes in my routine, that he isn't getting as much attention from me lately as he is used to! This might be a big contribution to his problem. I'm gonna have to make that up to him!

BUT....

The vet weighted him and he weighed 3.8 pounds. This sent up a red flag as I was sure the last time (about 6 weeks ago) that he was just shy of 4.5 pounds! I thought maybe my scale just wasn't very accurate, but I weighed him again tonight and yup, he was just under 4 pounds on my scale too! Is this an alarming amount of weight loss?

Couple of thoughts here. First, when I have a rabbit with sudden and unexplained weight loss....I am looking for either dental issues or intestinal parasites. And when I say "looking" for dental issues, I mean with x-rays/MRI as a visual is not practical. Could be something as simple as a piece of hay wedged between two teeth...like popcorn does to us sometimes. Some rabbits are prone to ulcers under the tongue which are very uncomfortable. As far as the parasites, I will do a fecal but just to look for coccidia. Looking for worms in a fecal has it's limitations so I normally just treat for worms especially if the rabbit spends time outside and eats from the yard. In your rabbit's case, since he is showing signs of stress, I might go after the teeth first.

As far as the advice the doctor gave you, I work with a lot of vets. When I get calls about wildlife coming into their practice, they work as my tech. Had one just today call me about pain meds for a snapping turtle. Treating wildlifeis much different than doingdogs and cats and they have never been trained to treat wildlife. I also use my "special needs" rabbits to give exposure to senior vets students doing clinicals as we live near a major vet school. Vet students receive precious little "hands on" experience with "exotics" and avian also for that matter. And those that attempt to treat rabbits in the field are met with outdated and inaccurate information in many of their reference manuals. Many of the treatments still being published first came about when it was thought that a rabbit and a cat were identical. In reality, a rabbit is treated medically much more like a horse. I still hear of vets suggesting such horrors as yogurt and Karo Syrup. Many gasp when I mention using Penicillin or Amoxicillin with a rabbit...but it can be done safely and effectively. My point is that many vets are really "behind the eight ball" when it comes to exotics. They really want to help but have little training and inaccurate information. But things are changing, slowly but surely. Personally, I would have a discussion with the doctor....being as diplomatic as possible. I have only once heard of a complete idiot doctor in all the years I have been doing this. I can tell you that contrary to what people think, they are not in it for the money because the money isn't all that good...they are really there for their love of the animals.

Randy

Thanks for the good info.

Hershey does eat a lot of wild plants. Also I have free range chickens on the property. Chickens also can get or carry coccidia. Is it the same kind rabbits can get? Would Hershey typically have a temp if he had and ulcer or coccidia?

Thanks!

Is it possible he ate a toxic plant? And I do think that the coccidia in avian is the same as rabbits can contract. And I don't think coccidia will elevate the body temp.....the ulcer, only if it has become infected by bacteria. I would think about keeping him separated from the chickens. And another thought, if you have free range chickens, most likely you have raccoons. And raccoons carry a very nasty parasite that is passed thru contact with their fecal material. Raccoons are usually very specific in where they "do their business". This is not very likely but still something that should be considered since your bun spends time outside. And at this point, I wouldn't rule out anything but I would start by a close look at the teeth....and what is growing in that GI tract.

Randy