Eve, How's Layla?

Sorry, all the posts were lost about her problems, although I did still have this one saved...

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The Infirmary > Bad news about Layla
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From: Eve
Date: 2007-06-04 03:39:58
Reply: http://rabbits-forums.com/reply.php?topic_id=22648

Thank you very much for your replies Haley and Offspring2099 .

Layla has been switched to Zithromax this week. She has been on it for
about 4 days but she is doing a lot worse on it. Is it normal for the
condition to get worse when switching to a new antibiotic at first? She
is getting 1.5mls Zithromax, which is a lot for a very fussy bunny to
swallow, so my vet is arranging to get the medicine compounded.

Haley, I have bought a nebulizer I found in my local trading post, so I
will be going to the vet to get some medicine to use in that. I will
ask her about the Mucomyst you mentioned you used for Max, thank you for
the suggestion. I really hope the nebulizer helps her breathing.

Offspring2099, thank you very much for your helpful post. I agree with
your advice in trying to take care of the teeth first. The main problem
unfortunately is the way in which Layla's teeth are growing, and I
don't think anything can help with this other than removal of all of the
teeth. I am not sure how fair/realistic this option is for Layla.

I am not sure if antibiotic beads would be of any help as all abcesses
and the teeth involved have already been removed, there is just the
threat of future infections at the moment.

I have never heard of rabbits with no teeth, I would be very interested
if you knew anything else about this. Do you by any chance remember if
they also had healthy top molars removed and how difficult this was?

It would be such a blessing if there was possibility for Layla to have
a healthy and happy life toothless.

I was thinking aboutLayla over the weekend and Ive been meaning to ask.

How's she doing?

Hi Pipp and Haley!

Thank you for asking about Layla, it means a lot to me. I have been meaning to start a new topic about her, but I didn't know where to start because so many posts were lost. Thank you so much for making the topic Pipp and for posting the saved post, I really appreciate it.

Layla is doing well at the moment, but unfortunately the long term outlook is not very positive. She has chronic upper respiratory disease and ongoing dental disease. She is in a bit of pain, but with daily pain meds, antibiotics, nebulizing three times a day and critical care she is still active, happy (most times) and has a healthy appetite.

She has regular vet visits at the moment and we are doing regular Xrays to keep an eye on how her teeth problems are progressing. My vet recently had a specialist come in to do another CT scan and the damage to her nose is much worse than we initially thought.

The scan has shown that she has a very large central abcess in the middle of the nose which is not associated with the teeth. There is a lot of bone destruction in her nasal cavities. She also has a tooth root abcess forming in one of her teeth and there is residual infection around a tooth that was already extracted.

So at the moment she just requires ongoing care, as a cure for her problems is no longer possible. We are just trying to control the condition as best we can and keep her happy and comfortable. She will be having more Xrays next week and depending on the outcome we will have to decide wether it is fair to put her through any more tooth surgeries or not, taking into consideration her nose is getting worse and we cannot fix it.

I have been spending so much time with Layla and because of all the daily attention she needs she has become my heart bunny. We are so much closer now, she is constantly by my side. Even when I go to bed she jumps up on me and lays down on me, giving me bunny kisses. The poor little thing.

Thank you again for asking how she is doing. :love:

I was thinking about her the other day, thanks for the update. Sorry it's not very good news though. I guess just try to enjoy whatever time you have together, and take LOTS of pictures of her.

Aw I hope Layla gets better! I know she's a strong fighter!

Eve, Im so sorry to hear this. Its so heartbreaking when you feel so hopeless. I guess you just take it one day at a time and try to make her as happy and comfortable as possible.

Is she still on Zithromax or any other med? I would think maybe doing Bicillin injections would be something helpful as well. At least it couldnt hurt and it might actually help with the abscesses.

Let us know if theres anything we can do to help. Shes a very lucky girl to have such a devoted and caring mommy.

*hugs*

Haley

Give her more kisses and hugs for us.

Rainbows! :hug2:

Moominmoo, thank you for your reply. I really appreciate you mentioning to take lots of photos, because that is something really important for me andwith my pretty busy routine at the moment I actually didn't even think to do this. I would really regret it if she went sooner than later and I didn't take lots of photos of her. I might also make a video of her doing binkies on my bed. Thank you again for the very helpful reminder.

Phinnsmommy, thank you so much for your encouraging words, they mean a lot to me. :hug2:

Haley, thank you for your reply, your posts always make me feel a lot better and I really appreciate your ongoing help and advice. :hug2:

She isstill on Zithromaxat the moment and it is working really well for her. At first she got worse on it, but after a week her sneezing and discharge nearly disappeared. My vet is really happy with how she is responding to it. Thank you for the suggestion about Bicillin injections, it will be the first thing I ask my vet about when I see her next. I really hope she thinks it's a good idea.

Layla looks so happy right now, she is dashing around my room doing binkies and jumping over anything that is in her way. I just really want to buy her as much time as possible, because the medications are keeping her stable and she is really enjoying life right now.

Pet_Bunny, thank you for the message, I will go give her lots of hugs and kisses as soon as I finish typing this.

Just wanted to say Im thinking of Layla, is she still doing alright?? :hug2:

Hi Haley, thank you so much for your message. :heart:

Layla is doing really well on her current treatment plan.

She is happy, not in a lot of pain and her breathing has cleared up nearly completely.

She is currently on Metacam, Tramadol twice daily, Zithromax and Gentamycin twice daily. I have asked my vet about the Bicillin injections, but since Layla is responding so well to what she is on now, she thinks it will be a bit much to add more drugs to her routine. When she is off the Gentamycin, we will maybe try adding Bicillin then.

I am so happy Layla is doing so well, but I must say that the vet bills are really killing me. Her medicines plus critical care are costing me more than rent per week, and I have had to pay $500 on top of that just for this weeks other procedures. Being a full time student, I am really struggling to come up with that kind of money on a regular basis. I have already had to sell my car to pay off Layla-related debt.

This week she has been sedated to have her teeth trimmed as they are growing in odd directions and hurting her mouth. Another one of her teeth has just fallen out on it's own. She has also had full blood tests to keep an eye on how she is handling all of the long term medicines.

Sorry for the rant, I will by all means continue to pay for everything she ever needs, it has just been a bit difficult.

How is your furry bunch doing? I hope they are all happy and healthy. I haven't been on RO very much lately so I have some catching up to do.

Eve wrote:

I am so happy Layla is doing so well, but I must say that the vet bills are really killing me. Her medicines plus critical care are costing me more than rent per week, and I have had to pay $500 on top of that just for this weeks other procedures. Being a full time student, I am really struggling to come up with that kind of money on a regular basis. I have already had to sell my car to pay off Layla-related debt.

This week she has been sedated to have her teeth trimmed as they are growing in odd directions and hurting her mouth. Another one of her teeth has just fallen out on it's own. She has also had full blood tests to keep an eye on how she is handling all of the long term medicines.

Sorry for the rant, I will by all means continue to pay for everything she ever needs, it has just been a bit difficult.

How is your furry bunch doing? I hope they are all happy and healthy. I haven't been on RO very much lately so I have some catching up to do.

Click to expand...

I know this feeling. It can be so hard trying to figure it all out. How many more times can you pull money out of the air.

Lots of hugs and vibes heading your way.

Oh Im so happy to hear shes doing alright.

I know just how you feel with the vet bills. It just kills you to have to put yourself in such debt, but you want to do everything you can for your baby. I spent so much on Max and Im still struggling to pay down my credit card bills. It was worth it though now that he's healthy and not in any pain.

Im praying so hard that Layla can survive all this like Max did. Shes a strong girl for everything she's been through. And you are an amazing person for not giving up on her and doing everything you can to help her. Shes so lucky to have such a devoted mom.

Im so glad the meds are working for her. Keep us posted and give her kisses from me.

Thank you so much JadeIcing and Haley, I really appreciate your support, your comments mean so much to me

Layla is ripping up newspaper right now and she looks really happy, I am so glad she is feeling so good. There is occasional teeth grinding but it's very minimal. She is much more relaxed and is behaving normally now, so the higher dose of pain meds have made a huge difference to her.

All of her blood tests have thankfully come back normal, so my vet is happy for her to continue with the long term medications which is great.

Haley, I am so happy about the outcome of Max's treatments, your threads about him have always given me hope for Layla. Seeing her like she is now definately makes all of the expenses so worth it, it was so hard to watch her in so much pain before and not know how to help her.

I have also justbeen offered asecond job which fits in great with my uni hours, so this will make things a lot easier for me.

Thank you againfor all of your kind words :hug:.

Eve, I see youre on!! How is our girl doing?

Hi everyone!

It's been a very long time since I've written an update on Layla.

I have just returned from the vet with some sad news, but given all of her medical problems it is something I have been expecting for quite some time now.

Unfortunately there is nothing else we can do for Layla surgery-wise at this time and she will have to be put to sleep, depending on how quickly her teeth situation progresses.

Layla's x-rays showed that 3 of her remaining molar teeth are infected and some of them are growing horizontally. Her upper right molar is alsoforming an abscess. Shehas incisor malocclusion, with the roots of the upper incisors curving around to grow through the upper roof of the mouth. On her lower right side, there is overgrowth of the gum and no teeth were initially visible until they were probed. Layla also has a large tumor in her nose with bone destruction. These teeth and nasal abscesses are causing blockages and discharge in her eyes.

I have discussed the above with my vet and due to the extent of her problems, the only surgery possible would be to remove all of her teeth. There are many problems with going ahead with such invasive surgery and it would most likely be pointless to put her through all of this, as it will not improvethe large tumor in her nose for which nothing can be done.

Her medical routine now consists of Tramadol twice a day, Metacam once a day, Gentamicyn in the nebulizer once a day, penicillin injections weeklyand her eyes flushed regularly as she has some discharge. She alsohas chloramphenicol eye drops at the moment, but these are only to be used for one week. Her teeth are also trimmed every 3 months.At the momentshe isonly eating Critical Care and chopped veggies, as she can no longer chew pellets or hay. Being a very sensitive and hard to handle bunny, she is not very impressed by all of this extra attention.

My vetsaid that the best thing we cando nowisjust try tomaintain the situation with antibiotics. She said that we should be able to maintain itfor about6 months,unless her teeth abscess dramatically worsen.

So although the news is not positive,I am very grateful that I do havea bitmore time with her and I know approximately how long. At the moment Layla has a big appetite, she is still quite active and is enjoying her time with her boyfriend Rodney. I will do everything I can to make sure that she has a really good 6 months, I will spoil her rotten and make sure to takelots andlot of pictures.

A pic of Layla chilling out on my bed...



:big kiss:

I'm so sorry Eve....poor little Layla,you have done so much for her,you are such a wonderful bunny mum...she is a very lucky bunny to have found you

Poor Layla

Will be keeping you both in my thoughts

Cheryl

:hug:

Oh Eve, Im so so sorry. This just breaks my heart.

Have you guys considered upping the PenG injections? PenG should be given daily (and Bicillin everyother day)so its my understanding that doing it weekly (which my vet once tried to make me do) would be ineffective.

What about Zithromax? Do you have that available there? Maybe an increase in antibiotics would allow her some more time.

My thoughts and prayers are with you both. I know how heartbreaking it is to feel so helpless. You have been such anawesome mom to her through everything. You both are so strong and I hope you'll both keep fighting.

We're here for you

Haley

Thank you all so much for your posts Cheryl, Naturestee and Haley, they mean a lot to me. :hug2:

Haley, thank you for your advice, I will ask my vet if we can up the penicillin injections to daily.

We have tried Zithromax and Layla was on it for a few months. At first it worked really well but then it became ineffective. She is on Gentamicin instead now and it is keeping her nasal discharge at bay really well.

She gets the Gentamicin twice a day in the nebulizer so it goes straight to her nose. I'm not sure if we can increase her antibiotics anymore because she is already on quite a lot of meds at the moment, but I will check with my vet about this also.

The problem is that even if we cankeep theteeth abscess under control, she just has so much more going on. We havecompared all of herx-rays over the past year with the most recent ones, and it is estimated that in 6 months timethe roots ofher upper incisors (which have curved around)will grow through the upper roof ofher mouth. This will be painful and cause infection. Unfortunately no antibiotics can help to slow this down.

Thank you all for always being here for me and for keeping Layla in your thoughs.

I just posted an update in our Library antibiotic section on Bicillin from Marcy Moore, the one who pretty much developed the Bicillin protocol. She said a lot of vets see the once a week dose (which is used for rabbits with syphillis) and use that and that not only is it ineffective, but it creates resistant bacteria.

Could you print out or email her study to your vet? Bicillin really needs to be given every other day or not at all.

Praying for you both

Haley