I did a terrible thing last night

Hello everybody,
I did a terrible thing last night. Benji is our oldest bun and we’vehad him the longest. Before we got him neutered his was really ahandful. He had a very aggressive personality among other things. Afterhe was neutered he calmed down quite a bit and became a lot moreeasygoing. However he has always played kind of rough. He isn’t mean ordangerous. Just kind of a little tough guy. He would charge at me, butthen stop just short and lick my hand. Sometimes during playtime hewould run past me and nip at me or kick up his back feet at me. Hewould get really annoyed if I ignored him. I usually got pawed andnipped for that. He loves to play with his keys. I would pick up hiskeys and move them somewhere else. He oinks and then proceeds to putthe keys back “where they belong”. Benji likes to play in or out of hiscage. All-in-all we have a good time playing and then he was always inthe mode to be petted, nuzzled, and rasined. He does tend to be alittle protective of his cage sometimes, but usually lets us do whatever needs to be done.

Last night we were playing and he was in his cage. We usually startwhen I go into his cage to give him fresh hay, pellets, and water. Weplayed with his toilet paper tube for a while. He crawled under hisblankie and played “can’t-see-me!” Then it happened. I went to pick uphis keys, he oinked, charged, and then bit me really hard. Not a nip.Sunk in the tops and bottoms and drew a lotta blood. I yanked my handaway and, all in the same motion smacked him on the nose. I didn’t meanto. I was a gut reaction. I knew I shouldn’t have smacked him, but itwas too late. I hate myself now. I could tell he wasn’t hurt, but hewas definitely upset and maybe a little scared. I tried to reassure himthat I didn’t mean it, but he just hunkered down in the corner in his“locked-down” position. I’m so upset with myself. It’s not like me atall to do that. I don’t know why I did it. I hate me right now.

This morning he seemed to be back to his old self. He came over togreet me and stuck his nose out through the cage to get a scratch. I’mhoping he has forgiven me or maybe just forgot the whole incident, butI know I won’t. I’ll never do anything like that again, even if hebites me a hundred times. I’m not really looking for advice or foranybody to tell me that it’s “OK”, because it’s not. I just needed toget this out and urge everybody to think before they act. I’m sooooosorry and sooooo upset with me!!

Welcome to the club! Been there, donethat! Some times the reaction is so automatic, you don't evenhave time to think about it. The Missus has taken afly swatter to one of our recalcitrant buns on occasion, who respondsby trying to "make nice," after she's been swatted. I knowrabbits are not supposed to "understand" punishment, but how did theylearn no-nos from Mom, or the rest of the litter?

We have a bun who used to be a biter of me, at least , and drew bloodintentionally on more than one occasion. After trying manythings to end the behavior, the only thing that has worked, with him,has been to grab him behind the neck and press him to the floor,meanwhile telling him I am the "Boss Rabbit," the "Alpha Rabbit," andthat he must submit.

It sometimes broke my heart to see him struggle to break free, but Iwould only release him after he held still, suggestingsubmission. Then, I would release, pet and praisehim. Some people warned me that he could permanently injurehimself while struggling, and I suspect they are correct, but you knowwhat, I don't want to have to deal with a biter! Manybreeders will eliminate biters from their herds, rather than riskinjury to themselves or others at some later date.

In the beginning, I had to employ this tactic fairly regularly, but indiminishing frequencies as time went on. Can't remember thelast time I had to do it. Either the bun has mellowed on itsown, or it did learn the lesson. I suspect it is the latter.

You just got Benji's attention for a while, and it is obvious he holdsno grudges. Don't flail yourself over it.Obviously, the bunny isn't interested in flailing you, either.

Buck

Hi Jim,

Cut yourself a break. Benji didn't get hurt and you learnedan important lesson. It was a natural reaction on yourpart. Hopefully Benji won't try that stunt again, but if hedoes, I'm confident that you won't hit him. I'm sureyoudon'twant to ever feel this way again.

We all make mistakes. The only thing you can do is learnfromour errorsand not repeat them again.

I do appreciate you sharing this story though. I'm sure it wasn'teasy. I respect you for watching out for the rest of us sothat we don't find ourselves in the same situation.



-Carolyn

Daddy--- why did you tell everyone else that youhit Benji, but you didn't tell me? You've been bitten befor and neverhit anyone... and i dont think he forgot...when i went to go pet himthis morning he went after my hand...

Thanks Buck and Carolyn,

I guess I am being a little hard on myself. I'm so glad you two werethe ones to respond. I truly value what ever you have to offer. I wasafaraid that everybody would hate me.

I 've used the submission hold tactic in the past. It's always workedbefore. I guess I just got a little over-the-edge this time.Definitely won't happen again.

Buck, you made me laugh right out loud. All my co-workersarelooking at me in the strangest way. I'm picturing the Missus chasingafter that darn bunnie with a flyswatter. My mom use to chase me withone, too. I'm sure the bun can zig-zag better than I could. I alwaysgot nailed. Probably desrved it, too.

Thanks again,

Jim


P.S.Here's the little biter....

Oh, look at him! he's beautiful. I can see the bunnytude in those eyes.

Don't worry, nobody is perfect...... he'll be fine.

Buck Jones wrote:


It sometimes broke my heart to see him struggle to break free, but Iwould only release him after he held still, suggestingsubmission. Then, I would release, pet and praisehim.

___________________________________________________________________

I would've done the same thing.

JimD, don't worry I have done the same thing about twice. One timeI made Nepo fall. And then I felt a lot of guilt. Fortunantely hehasn't bitten me any more, and I hope I don't hurt him if he does.

Oh, bless your heart, Jim. You'velearned your lesson. To add to this, we're all human andsometimes make mistakes. I can certainly understand a bitesuch as you described prompting the reaction that you had.

I think that Buck and Carolyn have said everything that needs to be said.

I'll tell you, these bunny babies can surely try our patience at times, can't they?

Heres a picture of me and the biter.... I love him hes so sweet most of the time

There is an old saying: "Don't wear the Hair Shirt"

It comes from a long time ago in our history.

When someone would commit a crime, they had to wear a Hair Shirt. TheHair Shirt was a shirt made with a very course hair. It was to be wornwith the hair against the person's skin. The criminal would have towear it as punishment for a specified amount of time. The Hair Shirtwas most uncomfortable as it hurt, it itched, it was heavy, and it wasa symbol to the rest of the community that this person was bad.

* * * * * * * * * *

No one can make JimD feel worse than he already does.

JimD,

You've felt the pain, you are forgiven, now it's time you continue to be the Good Man that you are.

"Don't wear the Hair Shirt", Jim.


Respectfully submitted,
-Carolyn

You sweet man! Ifonly everyone were as concerned as you about such things. That ol'bunny is just fine and you need to let yourself be just fine too. Mygoodness, if you only knew how many of us have done that to more thanjust a bunny! I have walked out of a grocery store with the short hairsat the back of my sons neck pinched tight between my fingers!:XI have washed nasty words right out of my kids mouths witha big bar of soap, and I have switched them from one end of the houseto the other, looked them in the eye and dared them to complain aboutit! You didn't react from rage or hatred, you reacted from pain andsurprise. I subscribe to Buck's methods myself, and with many animals.Sebastian isn't the type of bunny that needs much discipline, but wehave had occasion to hold his head firmly down and tell him "NO" untilhe understood who was boss.

Look at it this way....at least you didn't bite him back!

Raspberry

Stitch has never bitten me she has scratched mefor having my hand in her cage and moving things around and I held herdown and told her no. She has never lunged at me again however my sonputs his hand in her cage and she lunges at him and he pulls awayscared so she harrasses him every chance she gets cause she's his alphabunny LOL.

My parents never spanked me I always got sent to my room and so thatpassed down I never ever spanked my son he got sent to his room andwhen Stitch is naughty she gets sent to her room.

Marie

If we spanked two, three time per child duringtheir lifetimes, it was alot. It was reserved for"serious" offenses, but there was no question it would be exercised asan option if the situation called for it.

They got one "ask" for anything, then "No!" meant no, end of questionand discussion. We did not "reason" with our children whenthey were too young to reason and we did our best to provide an unifiedand consistent front to our children on all issues, and that meanthaving to tell the truth, possibly admitting our own mistakes, at alltimes.

If we were wrong, which happened at times of course, we openly anddirectly apologized. We never berated our children for beingBAD. They may have manifested BAD behavior, and we let themknow of our displeasure, but we always made a distinction between one'sbehavior and the core of their being. Their behavior may havebeen bad (fix it!), but they were never singled out as being a badperson.

One of the problems I encountered in 32 years of teaching was that, asRaspberry indicated, there are too few consequences for young peoples'improper behavior because of legal, moral, and "psychological" moresimposed upon the educational institution by our society andculture. Few youngsters have to stand up and takeresponsibility for their actions and/or inactions, consequently theyoftenthink that theyareimpervious to any sort of control, by anyone, much lesshaving to exercise any self control.

In addition to being ill disciplined, they are often over-praised formediocrity and therefore, develop an inflated, egotistical concept oftheir own self-worth and value. The end result is ageneration of individuals characterized by a sense of entitlement.

Obviously, these caustic comments do not apply to each and every youngperson. There are many fine young people to be found today,some of which are to be seen right here on thisforum. These comments are just an overview of conditions thatI have noted duringthree decades of teaching at a high schoollevel.

As parents, we tend to have our own methods of raising children, whichoften hearkens back to our own childhoods. We liketo think we raised our children using plain, common, good sense and,therefore,we're aligned with and think like the RaspberrySwirls of this nation.

Buck

Oh, of all days!!!!! I wish that I had time to substantively reply to this post right now.

Raspberry, you see the picture so clearly. My husband and Iwere not blessed to have children, but our ideas of childraising andparenting run right along the same lines as yours. In fact,we implemented the same principles with our nieces, nephews, andgodchildren (who loved us to no end) and had better control over themin most cases than their own parents did!

Oh, bless you for putting this out there. Even if otherpeople don't agree with this perspective it's food for thought andreference for the future.

I'll post more on this later.

Bravo to you for putting a school of thought out there that's not very popular this days.

(P.S. I didn't edit this, so please excuse any mistakes... )

Buck, I think that you and I must have beenwriting at the same time because your post showed up on my end after Isent mine through.

Oh, I wish I had time rightnow!

I had no doubt that you also would have a wonderfully written/statedargument in support of this point of view. You and Raspberrysee this problem so clearly.

Interesting stuff.....I'm not a parent yet, butthere's no time like to present to start thinking about it, right? Ipretty much share the same views as Raspberry and Buck (well put, youtwo!). I've found a lot of good information in the "non-punitivediscipline" school of thought (basically, there are definatelyboundaries and consequences for actions, but there's very little"punitive punishment" - yelling, spanking, etc.)

My Oh My, we do get into it here, don't we??




My parents were big believers in "Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child" Ofcourse, it's one thing to get a swat, it's another to get a beating.

There have been children I know that I wish would've gotten a swat. Asa matter of fact, I'm waiting for the kids on the playground to do it.

The person we had on recently that was banned was a young adult. I hademailed said person and told them that we would be reporting him/her,we are able to trace their activity, and they'd be banned. The responseI got back was, "I know and I don't care." It made me wonder what thathousehold is like that this person is growing up with.

If children don't have to suffer the consequences of their badbehavior, they don't feel safe or loved. Without boundaries set, thechild ends up thinking no one cares enough. Often times, in the end,their lives and their relationships don't work well and they learntheir lessons the hard way.

Life has a way of presenting the same lessons to us until we 'get'them. If you don't face your issues, they'll just be up ahead waitingfor you.

-Carolyn

While I don't have an enormous amount of time to reply to all of this, I will comment on a couple of things...

It is NOT illegal to spank a child. Many people have thatmisconception due to a parenting option that was brought into the mixin the 70's and 80's. It is illegal to abuse them, usesomething other than your hand to smack them on the behind,etc. I have a friend who is a social worker and she assuresme this is true.

My children got their hands tapped, their butts swacked and it didn't kill them, or make them mental cases..... yet

I cannot tell you how many times I hear "You have the most politechildren!"or "what a nice young man!" or "She's just sosweet!"

My children are taught as I was; that you respect your elders, but Ihave added the conditions upon which they deserve respect.Someone who treats them poorly is not "respected" but is not mistreatedeither. They are to be decent and just ignore that person orbe civil. If the person is actually mistreating them.... thatperson will have to deal with theirMOTHER! Whodoesn't take kindly to adults being mean to kids. LOL!

Anyhow, I believe that there is a need to make children behave, but Ialso believe there is a need for them to haverespect aspeople.

In a nutshell, I believe in a combination of the way people were raised years ago and the more recent years.

Buck Jones wrote:

....and that meant having to tell the truth, possibly admitting our own mistakes, at all times.

If we were wrong, which happened at times of course, we openly anddirectly apologized. We never berated our children for beingBAD. They may have manifested BAD behavior, and we let themknow of our displeasure, but we always made a distinction between one'sbehavior and the core of their being. Their behavior may havebeen bad (fix it!), but they were never singled out as being a badperson...

Buck

Click to expand...

These things are crucial! If Ihad a bible of child rearing. I believe these would be in the top five.I have said this for years and so many of my friends have looked at melike I have two heads. I have punished my children and found I waswrong. I apologized. I have corrected them in front of others, found Iwas wrong, so I apologized in front of others. I have has argumentswhen I thought I was right. Found I was wrong then awakened them orpulled them out of class to tell them I was wrong. They will love andrespect you, see you as more human, see you as strong and full ofcharacter, if you admit your mistakes.

And again you hit the nail on the headwith the difference between a bad child and bad behavior. A child hasto understand he is in control of his behavior. If he is told over andover again by those who made him that he is bad, then he will come tobelieve that he can not change the bad things he does. He mustunderstand that it is the action that is bad, not the person.

Raspberry