My dog is pulling my arms off!

Kaya has been part of my life for the past 9years now, and the one thing (other than aggression with other dogs)that I've never been able to work out with her is constantly pulling onthe leash. No matter what I do, she will pull...and if there's asquirrel in the vicinity, I have to really brace myself! She willactually try and climb trees to chase them, forgetting that I'mattached at the other end of her.

I saw a woman at the park the other day with a harness on her dog, butit was unlike any I'd seen before. This harness looped around the dog'sfront legs, but also had astrap that went around his flank(the narrow part of his body, very close to his hind legs). It didn'tlook designed to tighten there, but if the leash was pulled I imaginethe dog would feel the pressure. Anyone seen anything like this? Icouldn't ask the woman about it as my dog can be quite unfriendly withother canines, so I couldn't approach her.

But I'm trying to find something that is humane and will stop incessantpulling. Right now I have a harness on my dog that is designed totighten around her chest area (front legs) to prevent pulling. Workedlike a charm at first, but now - several months after wearing this -she's back to pulling once again. I also have a Halti for her, which isgreat for preventing pulling, but our walks turn out to be annoying asKaya hates the thing. She constantly is rubbing her face againsteverything...the ground, me, posts, other people...andI'mconstantly trying to get her to stop. I've had a Halti on her for thepast 7 years or so, and she's never gotten used to it. Hence the reasonI purchased this harness a few months ago, hoping it's design couldstop her pulling, and then she wouldn't have to wear the Halti any more.

Anyone else live with *pullers*? And (aside from obedience training, which I cannot afford), any suggestions?

I can definitely sympathise. My dog (who passedaway last year) was a big time leash puller (especially when it came toother animals) and a big time dog/cat/squirrel/bird/bunny/anything thatmoves that isn't human hater.

She was only 50 pounds though so probably easier to control.

We took her to obedience which helped a little, but she never got overher desire to kill every dog she came across. Sorry, I don't have anyuseful advice, just sympathy!

Hopefully someone else here can help.

I can relate. My Casey is horrible. I don't even take him out anymore.

Whatever you do, DO NOT use a Haltie (the kind that go over the muzzleand the leash connects to the front). There have been dogswho broke their necks yanking at these.

Every trainer I asked suggested a standard choke chain, which may seem cruel, but are supposed to really work.

You HAVE TO pull the choke chain high up on the head though, not aroundthe neck and pull UP, not back, to correct. This means youhave to somehow keep your dog by your side, which I can't seem tomaster.

Good luck. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

I used to have a elkhound mix named Nikki andshe would also pull, until I bought her a prong collar and it alwaysworked for me. Check this link outhttp://www.cobankopegi.com/prong.html

and here is another little snippet I found that gives a gooddescription of it "The prong collar is made of interlocking links, eachwith two blunt prongs that pinch the dog's skin when the collar istightened. It should fit snugly just below the dog's ears. Unlike thechain slip collar, it puts even pressure around the neck by pinchingthe skin in a band about a half inch wide. No pressure is put directlyon the trachea with the pinch collar."

jordiwes wrote:

I can definitely sympathise. My dog (who passed away lastyear) was a big time leash puller (especially when it came to otheranimals) and a big time dog/cat/squirrel/bird/bunny/anything that movesthat isn't human hater.

She was only 50 pounds though so probably easier to control.

We took her to obedience which helped a little, but she never got overher desire to kill every dog she came across. Sorry, I don't have anyuseful advice, just sympathy!

Hopefully someone else here can help.

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Oh, jordiwes, your dog sounded a lot like my Kaya. She's around 50 lbstoo, and is very unpredictable around other dogs. Every once in a whilethere will be one she takes a liking to (my sister's sheltie cross, forinstance...Kaya adores her), but for the most part, if a dog approachesher the hackles go up, lip curls, and eyes glaze over. I got her fromthe Humane Society when she was almost a year old and she'd obviouslynever been socialized with other dogs before. She's also a dominantfemale, so any attempts to get her to interact with other dogs is nextto impossible. She too goes after any animal she sees, but thankfullyshe will listen to me if I shout at her. One time a few years agosomeone who was at our house unlatched the backyard gate and I wasn'taware of it, and so when I let Kaya out into the yard she wandered off.When I realized she was gone I went looking for her, and she wasn'tfar...just across the street. But the neighbor's cat was also there,and they were having a stare-down contest. I was so afraid she'd attackthe cat, but she didn't...I called to her and she backed off rightaway, then turned to come home. Unfortunately the cat decided that itwas his time to take advantage, and he attacked Kaya, grabbing her bythe neck...and that's when she let loose. My heart was in my throat asI ran over there, thinking she was going to kill the cat...it washorrible. I grabbed Kaya's collar and she immediately released the cat(she had him pinned to the ground at that point), and he ran off...anda few moments later I put Kaya in the house, then I ran back and foundthe cat hiding in his backyard. He was fine, not a scratch on him, butwas he ever pissed! LOL

At any rate, I know she has the potential to harm another animal orstart fights, so I do have to keep her under control all the time. Andamazingly, as much as she would kill a rabbit or a squirrel in aninstant, she never touches my rabbits. In fact, she actually protectsthem, and warns me whenever something is wrong (like the last time Raphhad a seizure).

I'm so sorry you lost your dog last year...it does take a long time to replace that hole they leave in our hearts...

Snuggys Mom wrote:

I can relate. My Casey is horrible. Idon't even take him out anymore.

Whatever you do, DO NOT use a Haltie (the kind that go over the muzzleand the leash connects to the front). There have been dogswho broke their necks yanking at these.

Every trainer I asked suggested a standard choke chain, which may seem cruel, but are supposed to really work.

You HAVE TO pull the choke chain high up on the head though, not aroundthe neck and pull UP, not back, to correct. This means youhave to somehow keep your dog by your side, which I can't seem tomaster.

Good luck. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

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Snuggy's Mom, the way you describe the use of the choke chain isactually how I used to use one on the dog I owned when I was a teen. Hewore one all the time, and having it on the lower part of his neck didnothing but have him strain to pull harder, and he'd wind upchoking...I was afraid it was hurting his esophagus, so I decided toput it up higher, close to his ears, and hold it up. That methodworked, but I decided to stop doing that when I got older as I wasafraid that a wrong move on my part would potentially damage his neck,as that area seems so tender. I haven't used a choke chain on a dogsince then.

I once had a vet caution me about the use of Haltis, she thought theywere a good device when used properly, but...she wasn't too keen ontheir popularity because ofthe injuries she'd seen, which shefelt were caused from owners jerking the dog's head around. When Kaya'shad her Halti on in the past, she has pulled, but she never would seemto be able to get any strength behind it. The biggest problem was inher trying to remove it...it was constantly annoying to me with herdropping to the ground to roll, or rubbing her face on everything, andshe obviously hated wearing it. I'd never heard that they couldactually break a dog's neck, though it does make sense...thank you forthe warning about that...!

hummer wrote:

Iused to have a elkhound mix named Nikki and she would also pull, untilI bought her a prong collar and it always worked for me.Check this link outhttp://www.cobankopegi.com/prong.html

and here is another little snippet I found that gives a gooddescription of it "The prong collar is made of interlocking links, eachwith two blunt prongs that pinch the dog's skin when the collar istightened. It should fit snugly just below the dog's ears. Unlike thechain slip collar, it puts even pressure around the neck by pinchingthe skin in a band about a half inch wide. No pressure is put directlyon the trachea with the pinch collar."

Click to expand...

Hi hummer,

I've seen these for sale in pet stores and have asked different peopleabout them in the past, and you know, I have received so many mixedreviews on them. I guess because of the collar's appearance, manypeople think they are cruel to use. But then I've talked to some whosay the prong collar is great. Guess I will have to look into it somemore (though I'm still pretty leery about putting a collar that high upon a dog's neck). They don't seem very popular around here, as I onlyever recall seeing one on a dog in the park once in the past. Mostaround here tend to use Haltis or Gentle Leaders...but then, I'm notsure how many people around here have the pulling problem that I do!LOL I rarely ever see a dog with a Halti at the park who acts the wayKaya does, constantly obsessed with removing it. Someone once told methat the more dominant the dog, the more they will not accept aHalti...not sure how true that is, but Kaya is definitely dominant.

Did you check out that Turkish spike collar at the bottom of your link? Now that's scary-looking!

Thanks for the input all...I really do appreciate it!

I had a major problem with pulling until lastweek! I bought a harness that goes around her belly and herneck, and it doesnt tighten anywhere. Its just a simple oneand it works a treat! But it seems that you have tryed thatmethod already :?

Before that I tryed the head halter too but she just kept trying to getit off all the time and she actually snapped it with her teethalso. I wouldnt suggest them atall.

As for other dogs, my dog is SCARED of them :shock: Its weirdcos she is scared of them if they come up to her, but once they havewalked away she goes for them viciously. She is muddled up Itell you! This is going to be a problem soon as we might begetting another dog. But we are thinking it will help herlike other dogs. As she LOVES my friends dog and is literallyin his face all the time. I dont know how the poor dog copeswith her. They always go on walks together and she pulls toget up close to him. I have yet to try out the harness inthis situation.

But I think like the one I have got, it doesnt tightenanywhere. It just basically grabs hold of her body and pullsher back towards you kind of thing.In my opinion they are thebest type of harness yet.

I wish you luck with your trouble-some doggy!

I have 2 Siberian Huskies (born to pull) and Iuse Haltis for both of them. I'd tried everything under the sun tocurtail their pullingbut nothing worked until I got theHaltis. They've used them since they were about a year old (they'reboth 7 now). Chief, the dominant one, had a bit of a problem with it atfirst but with some praise, a few treats, and wearing it around thehouse a bit without the leash attached, he quickly got used to it. Nowall I have to do is hold the nose loop open for both of them and theystick their noses in and wait for it to be buckled so they can gooutside. I've tried several times over the years to take them outwithout the Haltis, but they know when they aren't on and take FULLadvantage and pull as hard as they can. They quickly learned that theycan'tgo anywhere unless they have it on. Just as with anytraining tool, they work when used properly and bad things can happenwhen they aren't. The same is true for no-pull harnesses, choke chains,prong collars, etc.

The stories you hear about the dogs with Haltis that have broken theirnecks are, generally, the cases where the dog starts to take off andthe owner gives the Halti a jerk. I can also see how bracing for theimpact of the dog reaching the end of the leash could easily snap theirneck.

Another thing you can try, if you have the patience, is while you'redog is on the leash and starts to pull....stand completely still untilthey stop pulling and they let the leash slacken. Some dogs catch onpretty quickly that they get to walk more when they aren't pulling. Itdoesn't work with all dogs, though.



Heather

[Another thing you can try, if you have the patience, is while you'redog is on the leash and starts to pull....stand completely still untilthey stop pulling and they let the leash slacken. Some dogs catch onpretty quickly that they get to walk more when they aren't pulling. Itdoesn't work with all dogs, though. ]



That is a good idea aswell! I tryed walking in the opositedirection when my dog pulled but apart from getting absalutely knowwhere on our walk, and looking a right 'nana that didnt workeither. You just have to keep trying different suggestionsuntil you find one that suits your dog Its long, buteventually you will find a way!

I am adding support to the prong collar (orNatzi collar as its know at my house). My dog is completly diffrentwith it on and boy dose he get excited when we get it out becuse heknows he get to go for a walk.

It is not realy that harsh at all- if he pulls all we have to do is give it a quick jerk and he will stop.

The picture of the prong collar didnt show upbefore. Can anyone find another link to it? I amreally interested to see what its like!

Thankz

I think a friend of mine uses the harness thatgoes around the legs. I know he has some sort of specialharness. His girlfriend likes to run across the street withthe dog, so now when the dog gets to a corner she always dashesout!:shock: The harness has been helping.Unfortunately the lectures to the girlfriend haven't.:rollseyes

Oh and she's some sort of Australian shepard/pit mix with a really strong chest and legs, so when she pulls she PULLS!

Well, this morning my sis showed up at the houseunexpectedly, and asked if I wanted to go shopping with her. I saidsure, and after we'd hit the malls and she got what she was lookingfor, I asked if she'd mind going to PetSmart...so we did, and I woundup purchasing a Gentle Leader for Kaya. I really didn't have a lot ofhope for it, as her Halti hasn't been working, but to my surprise, Itook her out this afternoon and she was immediately 100% better on herleash! No pulling, barely any attempts to rub her face on the ground(or on me). I did the thing that linz suggested; every time Kaya beganto get ahead of me I stopped in my tracks and gently pulled her back tomy side (the Gentle Leader came with a training booklet and itsuggested the same thing). I never said a word each time I correctedher, just would stop and bring her back to my side...and she began toactually walk at my side after a while!

Apparently the Gentle Leader works differently than a Halti. While aHalti will apply pressure to the dog's head - and with many dogs thatis enough to keep them from pulling - the Gentle Leader appliespressure to the throat of the dog; not enough to hurt them, but enoughto stop the pulling. I had always assumed that the two worked the sameway. :? As with a Halti I think one has to be careful and never pulltoo brusquely, but I've found that all I need to do is gently guideKaya back when she starts to pull ahead, and she obeys. Now I'm hopingthat this is something she will adhere to, as the harness I had for her(it might be like the one that you described, Naturestee...Kaya's hasloops around the front legs that apply pressure to the leg/chest area,designed for pullers) worked well for the first few months, and thenKaya began to ignore it and pull anyway. So hopefully the GentleLeader, combined with the stop method every time she begins to pull,will teach her how to walk on a leash. We even saw squirrels and acouple of dogs on our walk today and Kaya was good! So aside fromhaving to keep stopping every so often, this was the most pleasant walkI've had with her in years.

Will let you know if this continues to help...if not I may just wind up renting her out for the Iditarod....

For anyone who wants to know what Kaya looks like, here's a pic of herwith me at the park taken several months ago. She is a mixed breed -the Humane Society guessed that she might be Shepherd/Husky mix, butI've had so many people ask me if she's a dingo or an Australian CattleDog that I suspect she does have a lot of ACD in her. She fits theirpersonality to a tee, and she actually looks like a throwback to thedingo, which was bred with Cattle dogs at one point, I believe (onetourist from Australia approached me once and asked how I managed toget a dingo into Canada!). Anyway, here she is (wearing the harness Idescribed earlier):

Here's the pic of the prong collar, Linz:



And here's a pic of that Turkish spike collar from the same link (itsaid that these were used to protect the necks of guard dogs who werewatching herds, in case a wolf would attack them...YIKES, glad theydon't use collars like that here!):

I just want to add another vote for the Gentle Leader. It's a GREAT product.

I am so glad you found the solution to your problem! Lets hope this one lasts more than a month

Them collars look really nasty :?Are you sure they dont hurtthe doggy too much? I personally would never use one ofthem. I have used a check chain lead/collar before but wasntkeen on using that either.

Good luck and I hope you keep both your arms by your side for now on

My 50 lb shep mix that pulls like she 400 lbs is a pleasure now, lol

Linz_1987 wrote:

I am so glad you found the solution to yourproblem! Lets hope this one lasts more than a month

Them collars look really nasty :?Are you sure they dont hurtthe doggy too much? I personally would never use one ofthem. I have used a check chain lead/collar before but wasntkeen on using that either.

Good luck and I hope you keep both your arms by your side for now on

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I've never used a prong collar on a dog before, so I couldn't say oneway or the other how they are. Some people seem to love them; otherssay they are cruel. I dunno...they just don't look like the type ofcollar I'd try. I don't even care for choke chains, even though I grewup using one on my beagle mix. There just seems to be so manyalternatives these days.

The other collar pictured, the spike collar, I would suppose isterribly hard on a dog...the article said they tend to weigh a lot, andit also mentioned that dogs tend to learn very quickly not to scratchthemselves around the head because of injuries they'd incur. I canunderstand the reasoning behind them I guess, if in some areas dogs areleft to guard flocks alone, and wolves are in the area. If a wolfattacks a dog it goes for the jugular, and the dog could be killed veryquickly. Still, I do feel so sorry for the dogs who have to wear them.

I imagine it will take a month or two to see just how effective theGentle Leader is on Kaya. She seems to be good with a product for awhile, and then she begins ignoring and goes back to pulling again. Butat least I'll be trying to train her with more proper methods now, andwill see how well she does. But I must say, she didn't seem to have thesame adverse reactions to this as she did to the Halti...from the timeI got the Halti she was constantly trying to rub it off, yet with thisone she barely did. Maybe it also has something to do with the extrastraps that are on the side of a Halti...perhaps they bothered hermore. Anyway, fingers crossed!

Our Bernese Moutain Dog Bowen (he went to thebridge last April) was 120 pounds of pulling power. We weretraining him to be a carting dog. At his weight properlytrained he could pull 1000 pounds on a balanced axle with noproblem. However, squirrels caused a def problem!Try to stop him when he put his head down and laid into theleash! Yeah right! :shock: We picked up a gentleleader and VOILA! Good Puppy! It wasgreat! It kept him from dragging us here and there!A def two thumbs up!!