dont take this as mean or as a personal attackagainst your rabbits, but why do lionheads look likealiens???? Ive seen alot of lionhead baby pictures and theyall look weird. like almost deformed. most babiesare kinda pudgy looking, but most of the lionhead babies ive seen havelong funny faces. just curious
lionheads question
- Thread starter brimmhere
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TinysMom
Well-Known Member
brimmhere wrote:
Their faces can often look particularly pointy because of the lack of fur while waiting for the mane to come in.
The nice thing about lionheads is that they are like the story of theugly duckling - they turn out to be like the beautiful swan with theirmanes - particularly when they're able to hold their manes.
It is going to be interesting to see this new breed develop.I know the standards were recently rewritten a bit to clarify them andwill be published soon. I think that will help with'standardizing" the breed.
Peg
The saying for lionhead babies is "the uglier it is when its young -the better it will be when its an adult" and that is true.The longer a lionhead baby goes without its hair wherethemane will be - usually the fuller and more dense the manewill come in.
Their faces can often look particularly pointy because of the lack of fur while waiting for the mane to come in.
The nice thing about lionheads is that they are like the story of theugly duckling - they turn out to be like the beautiful swan with theirmanes - particularly when they're able to hold their manes.
It is going to be interesting to see this new breed develop.I know the standards were recently rewritten a bit to clarify them andwill be published soon. I think that will help with'standardizing" the breed.
Peg
TinysMom
Well-Known Member
This site has one of the best explanations:
http://www.lionhead.us/talk_lionhead.htm
When a baby is born I don't usually know for sure what type of mane ithas - but I can generally tell. If a baby is double maned -it will be shiny on the hindquarters...where the skirting will come inlater.
As the baby gets its hair, the flanks of a double mane baby will stayfurless for a bit longer. Here is an example of a double manebaby at a young age - but old enough to have its eyes opened andstuff...
Can you see how it looks funny in the flank or skirting area? This isbecause it is going to get mane or wool there. If this babywas a single mane baby - it would have normal fur there like any otherbaby does at that age.
It really is only possible to tell for sure the double mane rabbitsfrom the single mane rabbits at birth and shortly afterwards unless youare a very experienced breeder. I have breeder friends whocan tell at a glance whether a rabbit is double maned or singlemaned...me? Well - I have to look at it a bit and study it(unless I raised it at our place).
Some of you may remember Shopgirl (originally called"Meathead"). Here is here photo as an adult...she is singlemaned.
Now here is a double mane adult at a slightly older age:
Shopgirl's photo doesn't show it well - she does have some mane underher chin - not much - and she has tuftsof mane at her ears -not the big wool look.
So how do rabbits get single mane or double mane genes? it's pretty easy to figure out...sort of.
The baby takes the mane gene from each parent. If ababyhas two parents that are double-maned, thenthebaby will be double maned. If the baby has one parent who issingle maned and one who is double maned...then the baby has a 50%chance of being single maned and a 50% chance of being doublemaned. It just depends upon whichgene it gets fromthe single mane parent..the mane gene or the no-mane gene.
Let's make it more complicated...you have two single mane lionheads andmate them. Well...if I remember right - 50% of the litterwill be double maned, 25% will be single maned and 25% will be"no-maned" and lookjust like other rabbits.
Some breeders still are doing hybrids where they will mate a lionheadwith a rabbit of another breed...usuallyNetherland dwarf -but it could be something else. In that case, thenon-lionhead is considered a "no mane". The baby will not geta mane genefrom that parent (obviously). However,it will geta mane gene from the maned parent IF the parent isdouble maned (for sure) - and it *might* get a mane gene from thelionhead if it is a single maned lionhead.
So basically - when you're looking for a lionhead - you will usuallywant to find a double mane lionhead that is from a line that is knownfor keeping their manes. I do have asingle manelionhead that still has his mane (Harry) and he'salmost 2years old now. Everytime he molts - it comes innicer. He is Shopgirl's dad and her mane may stay because ofthat. I am still watching and waiting to see.
I hope this helps in some way.
By the way - some of the top breeders do work with singlemanes. Why? Because they find if they take a singlemane to a double mane - they get longer manes from theiroffspring. I don't know the exact way that they do it - likehow oftenor how many generations between using a singlemane. But from what I've heard - using double manes only can"stunt" the mane length although it does make it nice and dense...sobringing in a single mane into the line every once in a while helps toget that mane to grow long.
I haven't played around with their theory yet.
Peg
http://www.lionhead.us/talk_lionhead.htm
When a baby is born I don't usually know for sure what type of mane ithas - but I can generally tell. If a baby is double maned -it will be shiny on the hindquarters...where the skirting will come inlater.
As the baby gets its hair, the flanks of a double mane baby will stayfurless for a bit longer. Here is an example of a double manebaby at a young age - but old enough to have its eyes opened andstuff...
Can you see how it looks funny in the flank or skirting area? This isbecause it is going to get mane or wool there. If this babywas a single mane baby - it would have normal fur there like any otherbaby does at that age.
It really is only possible to tell for sure the double mane rabbitsfrom the single mane rabbits at birth and shortly afterwards unless youare a very experienced breeder. I have breeder friends whocan tell at a glance whether a rabbit is double maned or singlemaned...me? Well - I have to look at it a bit and study it(unless I raised it at our place).
Some of you may remember Shopgirl (originally called"Meathead"). Here is here photo as an adult...she is singlemaned.
Now here is a double mane adult at a slightly older age:
Shopgirl's photo doesn't show it well - she does have some mane underher chin - not much - and she has tuftsof mane at her ears -not the big wool look.
So how do rabbits get single mane or double mane genes? it's pretty easy to figure out...sort of.
The baby takes the mane gene from each parent. If ababyhas two parents that are double-maned, thenthebaby will be double maned. If the baby has one parent who issingle maned and one who is double maned...then the baby has a 50%chance of being single maned and a 50% chance of being doublemaned. It just depends upon whichgene it gets fromthe single mane parent..the mane gene or the no-mane gene.
Let's make it more complicated...you have two single mane lionheads andmate them. Well...if I remember right - 50% of the litterwill be double maned, 25% will be single maned and 25% will be"no-maned" and lookjust like other rabbits.
Some breeders still are doing hybrids where they will mate a lionheadwith a rabbit of another breed...usuallyNetherland dwarf -but it could be something else. In that case, thenon-lionhead is considered a "no mane". The baby will not geta mane genefrom that parent (obviously). However,it will geta mane gene from the maned parent IF the parent isdouble maned (for sure) - and it *might* get a mane gene from thelionhead if it is a single maned lionhead.
So basically - when you're looking for a lionhead - you will usuallywant to find a double mane lionhead that is from a line that is knownfor keeping their manes. I do have asingle manelionhead that still has his mane (Harry) and he'salmost 2years old now. Everytime he molts - it comes innicer. He is Shopgirl's dad and her mane may stay because ofthat. I am still watching and waiting to see.
I hope this helps in some way.
By the way - some of the top breeders do work with singlemanes. Why? Because they find if they take a singlemane to a double mane - they get longer manes from theiroffspring. I don't know the exact way that they do it - likehow oftenor how many generations between using a singlemane. But from what I've heard - using double manes only can"stunt" the mane length although it does make it nice and dense...sobringing in a single mane into the line every once in a while helps toget that mane to grow long.
I haven't played around with their theory yet.
Peg
TinysMom
Well-Known Member
I forgot to add one disclaimer that is really important to me.
It is so easy to look at some rabbits and want them because of theirlooks. Some folks really want lionheads because of theirmanes - and they don't recognize the fact that the mane is going toneed care.
But don't pick a lionhead based just upon its looks. They canbe very pretty - and many times they'll stay that way - sometimes theywon't.
However, I want to watch people interact with rabbits and I try to askmyself if that person will be a good match for the rabbit and viceversa. I had one black buck that I gave away to a young boy(I'm thinking age 9 or 10) when I wouldn't give him away to someoneelse earlier in the day. Why? Because thepersonality of the boy seemed to fit the personality of the buck (hisname was "Tex"). Since I had been "given" this buck - Iwanted to give him away for free and not make money off of him....buteven still - he had to go to the right person.
When you're looking at a bunny - lionhead or not - please take the timeto hold it and talk to it and smoosh it and cuddle it and see what itis like. I have some rabbits that love to cuddle - othersthat want to play and explore (even though they're the sameage). Tonight Art was sitting with one (a baby) on hisshoulder while he watched tv 'cause the little guy wanted to be withhim....I have another rabbit from the same litter that would be off andscampering through the house if he could.
So even though lionheads can be beautiful with their manes, etc - takethe time to look past the mane and get to know the rabbititself. Make sure you ask questions of the person you'regetting it from....like what are its habits? how does it liketo play? How much have they worked with it? Howmuch grooming is required? Etc. etc. etc.
I bought my first rabbits because I loved their looks....but I breedthem because I've learned to love their personality. I thinkeveryone who breeds probably does so because they love something aboutthat breed...
Anyway - I'll get off my soapbox now. But please remember -the next time you see a lionhead...there is a bunny behind that manewhich has a personality and needs of its own....and it might be a goodfit for you - or it might not!
Peg
It is so easy to look at some rabbits and want them because of theirlooks. Some folks really want lionheads because of theirmanes - and they don't recognize the fact that the mane is going toneed care.
But don't pick a lionhead based just upon its looks. They canbe very pretty - and many times they'll stay that way - sometimes theywon't.
However, I want to watch people interact with rabbits and I try to askmyself if that person will be a good match for the rabbit and viceversa. I had one black buck that I gave away to a young boy(I'm thinking age 9 or 10) when I wouldn't give him away to someoneelse earlier in the day. Why? Because thepersonality of the boy seemed to fit the personality of the buck (hisname was "Tex"). Since I had been "given" this buck - Iwanted to give him away for free and not make money off of him....buteven still - he had to go to the right person.
When you're looking at a bunny - lionhead or not - please take the timeto hold it and talk to it and smoosh it and cuddle it and see what itis like. I have some rabbits that love to cuddle - othersthat want to play and explore (even though they're the sameage). Tonight Art was sitting with one (a baby) on hisshoulder while he watched tv 'cause the little guy wanted to be withhim....I have another rabbit from the same litter that would be off andscampering through the house if he could.
So even though lionheads can be beautiful with their manes, etc - takethe time to look past the mane and get to know the rabbititself. Make sure you ask questions of the person you'regetting it from....like what are its habits? how does it liketo play? How much have they worked with it? Howmuch grooming is required? Etc. etc. etc.
I bought my first rabbits because I loved their looks....but I breedthem because I've learned to love their personality. I thinkeveryone who breeds probably does so because they love something aboutthat breed...
Anyway - I'll get off my soapbox now. But please remember -the next time you see a lionhead...there is a bunny behind that manewhich has a personality and needs of its own....and it might be a goodfit for you - or it might not!
Peg
cheryl
Well-Known Member
i love the lionheads,i do not see them asugly,just different looking to a normal bunny.i dont think there issuch a thing as an ugly bunny,all bunnies are gorgeous
before i even knew there were bunny forums out there,i didnt reallyrealize all the different breeds there were,and when i first saw alionhead i thought wow what a cute bunny.
ok what i would like to know where does the lionhead come from,are theybred to a certain bunny for it to become a lionhead.i dont want tosound stupid im just really curious how the lionhead became to be alionhead,if you know what i mean.
before i even knew there were bunny forums out there,i didnt reallyrealize all the different breeds there were,and when i first saw alionhead i thought wow what a cute bunny.
ok what i would like to know where does the lionhead come from,are theybred to a certain bunny for it to become a lionhead.i dont want tosound stupid im just really curious how the lionhead became to be alionhead,if you know what i mean.
cheryl13 wrote:
ok what i would like to know where does the lionhead come from,are theybred to a certain bunny for it to become a lionhead.i dont want tosound stupid im just really curious how the lionhead became to be alionhead,if you know what i mean.
I am curious myself! I dont honestly know of anyother breeds with a mane.
The presence of a mane encircling a rabbit's head iscertainly an incredible sight. So what causes this and what do we knowabout it? The mane on a Lionhead is the result of a genetic mutation.Unlike most other genetic mutations in rabbit fur types it is adominant gene. This means you will see its effect on a first generationcross.
k found this listed on the above website. So the mane is from a mutation of a gene.
ok what i would like to know where does the lionhead come from,are theybred to a certain bunny for it to become a lionhead.i dont want tosound stupid im just really curious how the lionhead became to be alionhead,if you know what i mean.
I am curious myself! I dont honestly know of anyother breeds with a mane.
The presence of a mane encircling a rabbit's head iscertainly an incredible sight. So what causes this and what do we knowabout it? The mane on a Lionhead is the result of a genetic mutation.Unlike most other genetic mutations in rabbit fur types it is adominant gene. This means you will see its effect on a first generationcross.
k found this listed on the above website. So the mane is from a mutation of a gene.
cheryl
Well-Known Member
brimmhere wrote...I am curious myself! I dont honestly know of anyother breeds with a mane.
hehehe,im glad im not the only one who is curious,but im dying to know
hehehe,im glad im not the only one who is curious,but im dying to know
TinysMom
Well-Known Member
This site gives the lionhead history....I thinkyou ought to go there before I try answering any questions as this mayanswer them for you.
http://www.rarebitsandpieces.com/lionheadhistory.htm
Bob Whitman (site owner) is now getting out of lionheads - but heimported many of the first lionheads into the states - I think heprobably did more to help bring lionheads over here than most peoplerealize. Other breeders did import lionheads too - but hewould import them several at a time while individual breeders mightimport just one or two for their own herds.
Peg
http://www.rarebitsandpieces.com/lionheadhistory.htm
Bob Whitman (site owner) is now getting out of lionheads - but heimported many of the first lionheads into the states - I think heprobably did more to help bring lionheads over here than most peoplerealize. Other breeders did import lionheads too - but hewould import them several at a time while individual breeders mightimport just one or two for their own herds.
Peg
BunnybarnPam
Member
I am sorry to hear that about Bob, I can't imagine owning rabbits without my beloved Lionheads.
Lionheads do go through an ugly duckling stage, but they are so worth it. They are so ugly they are cute:bunnydance:
Lionheads do go through an ugly duckling stage, but they are so worth it. They are so ugly they are cute:bunnydance:
chubbers422
Well-Known Member
When I first saw a lionhead bunny-recently- , I thought:
Og my gosh! Its beautiful!!! Look at it's cute little face!:love: !!! lol. I don't think any animal is ugly. I seethem as either beautiful, cute, or handsom, in their own little ways.
:bunnydance:-RACHEL & CHUBBS :bunnydance:
Og my gosh! Its beautiful!!! Look at it's cute little face!
:love: !!! lol. I don't think any animal is ugly. I seethem as either beautiful, cute, or handsom, in their own little ways. :bunnydance:-RACHEL & CHUBBS :bunnydance:
cheryl
Well-Known Member
huntress they are gorgeous,are you a breeder of lionheads?
ohh i would really lovvvvvvvvvvvve to see one in person
i dont think we have them over here in australia though......*snaps fingers* ohh dang
ohh and hello and welcome:wave:
ohh i would really lovvvvvvvvvvvve to see one in person
i dont think we have them over here in australia though......*snaps fingers* ohh dang
ohh and hello and welcome:wave:
cheryl
Well-Known Member
ohh that is great that you raise them,i bet they are neat little bunnies,
maybe some time down the track we might be able to get them overhere,and thats a big maybe,so all i can do is just look at all thesecute lionheads that everyone posts,i feel like reaching through the pcscreen and petting them,they are really so adorable.
ohh and the hello thing,dont think im a nut or anything,but there seemsto be a problem in the forum somewhere,other members are having troubleas well.
hello
hello
hello
this is really funny,may as well make a joke of it lol
maybe some time down the track we might be able to get them overhere,and thats a big maybe,so all i can do is just look at all thesecute lionheads that everyone posts,i feel like reaching through the pcscreen and petting them,they are really so adorable.
ohh and the hello thing,dont think im a nut or anything,but there seemsto be a problem in the forum somewhere,other members are having troubleas well.
hello
hello
hello
this is really funny,may as well make a joke of it lol
lionheadmomma
Member
Hi! To learn more about the lionhead (USA) goto http://www.lionhead.us It tellsabout the mane and everything. I started breeding Lionheads in Nov.2004 and just love it. Whenthey are born, you just can't wait to seethem get their little manes. I jst had a litter that has both DM(double mane)and SM (single mane) kits in it and you can see thedifference in this photo. You can tell a few days after birth when thehair starts to come in. DM's flanks and neck area will remain baldlonger than the rest of the body. SM's hair comes in all over like aregular bunny. DM.s have a thick dense mane and are more likely toremain into adulthood. SM's have thinner manes but usually longer ones.Here is the photo. When I learn how to post mutiple pics correctly, Iwill put more up for you or a link to a photo album. Ok...here is thepic of all the babies together. Thetwoon the leftand the black one are SM's (notice how they have more hair) and the twoon the right are DM's (notice less hair and you can see bald flanks).You can tell the difference soon after birth.
Here is a link to a photo album I just did. The mom is the first picand she is a SM (notice how long her mane is but not thick). The lastpic is of a Lionhead (one with ribbons) that is a DM (notice how muchshorter mane is but thick).
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/senecapriderabbitry2004/album?.dir=/7900
TinysMom
Well-Known Member
For those who go to LionheadMama's website -you'll see a picture of a lionhead called "Firebear". Manyhave said that Firebear is the "ideal" lionhead (ARBA judges inCalifornia from what I understand). I have some of his greatgrandchildren and he has sired a fairly well-known line oflionheads. From what I remember, he is one lionhead that haskept his mane into adulthood.
Peg
Peg
TinysMom
Well-Known Member
huntress wrote:
How pudgy a face do you want? just curious is this pudgy enough? or doI need to breed for shorter broader faces? still fine tuning the heads!
Andthis little one will come to Auntie Peg when?
:elephant:ew HI everyone!!
Actually that little guy has been spoken for already, sorry.
I love baby pics post them so we can see, please please!
Cheryl these little guys are so soft and cuddly you would fall head over heals in love with them.
Actually that little guy has been spoken for already, sorry.
I love baby pics post them so we can see, please please!
Cheryl these little guys are so soft and cuddly you would fall head over heals in love with them.
