Rabbits and Horses

Lazyacre wrote:

-rabbits are induced ovalators, horses aren't

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I know this may sound trivial, but i think that is an amazing ability!

Okay, Horses can vomit. I have a horse and will1 horse out of every 10000 horses can vomit out of the wholeworld.I think thats the right number. Some horses can. I justcan't remember the 2 number, but I know its a big number. Some people Iknow, know people, that have horses that have vomited 1 or twice.

Not that I'm right or your wrong. Just trying to clarify it that horsesand rabbits aren't the same that much. this is my list I came up with.

* Both like carrotts, and other snacks, like apples, strawberries, blueberries, bananas and pumpkin.

* Both have personalities that can be the same. Like your horse likesto pace and your rabbits likes to pace. Almost like they like to do thesamething.]

* All can do tricks if tought how.

* Both are very smart.

* some are good mothers some aren't.

*Both can be showed.

And a lot more.

List of what they don't have in-come-in with each other.

* females and males aren't called the same.

* Rabbits can't be ridden by their owners.

Cleo

Lazyacre wrote:

Good Points Rick!

-rabbits practice eat their cecal products, don't know...dohorses -- Yes,http://www3.vet.upenn.edu/labs/equinebehavior//behmonth/behavdecb.htm

-rabbits were domesticated as food source, horses primarily as beast ofburden. - Horses are a common food source inmany countriestoday (the US exports over 100,000 lbs. of horse meat per year) as aswell as in ancient times.

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hmm I learned this in Animal Science last year, but all i remember is they have the same kind of digestive system with a cecum.

FrenchLopGirl1280 wrote:

Okay, Horses can vomit. I have a horse and will 1 horse outof every 10000 horses can vomit out of the whole world.Ithink thats the right number. Some horses can. I just can't rememberthe 2 number, but I know its a big number. Some people I know, knowpeople, that have horses that have vomited 1 or twice.

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Normlly a horse cannot, very rarely they do.


Horses have a band of muscle around the esophagus as it enters thestomach. This band operates in horses much as in humans: as a one-wayvalve. Food freely passes down the esophagus into the stomach as thevalve relaxes but the valve squeezes down the opening and cuts off thepassage for food going back up.
Horses, however, differ from us because their valve really works.Humans can vomit. Horses almost physically can't because of the powerof the cut-off valve muscle. Also, the esophagus meets the stomach atan angle which enhances the cut-off function when the horse's stomachis bloated with food or gas. Then the stomach wall pushes against thevalve, closing the esophagus even more completely from the stomach.Normally, the mechanics are such that the horse's stomach rupturesbefore the valve yields.
If material does pass from stomach out the esophagus, the horse isdead or nearly so. That's why horses can't vomit. But, sometimes theydo. Rarely, to be sure.

http://www.wonderquest.com/HorseVomit.htm

That's why colic is so dangerous. I've done my research because a pony I rode once died of colic.

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I know one major difference but I've never thought about similarities.

Horses are not built for jumping while rabbits are. Rabbits havemuscular hindquarters meants for jumping while horses don't. Althoughhorses are used for jamping, it's not natural -- a horse will go arounda jump given the opportunity.

WOW this is weird. I was thinking of thislately. I thinik that they are very similar in the way they act.Iam always tryingto find out more about horsewhispering and i always apply what i have found not only to horses butto my bunnies too. For instance i will sit on their run and let themcome to me, i always let them have a choice. I would love it if someonecould watch wild bunnies like people watch mustangs and make a join-uptype thing for bunnies. That would be so cool!!

Bunnys_rule63 wrote:

I would love it if someone could watch wildbunnies like people watch mustangs and make a join-up type thing forbunnies. That would be so cool!!

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Have you ever read, The PrivateLifeofThe Rabbitby R.M. Lockley (out of print-look throughweb for Used Books)?


Thebook was abouta study, that I believe,was the only one that has been done of it's nature, whereas thegentleman watched the rabbit behaviors for approximately 4-5years. He was living on an estate and had a room in thebasement that had a glass wall where he could sit and observe theirbehavior while underground.

It's an excellent read!

-Carolyn

Thanks Carolyn!

Bramble Briar86 wrote:

If rabbits can't breath through their mouth then that'sanother thing that's the same.

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I don't think rabbits normally breathe through their mouths, but Irecently saw one of mine panting like a dog with her mouth wideopen. It really scared me. I had picked her up andplaced her on a chair to brush her. She HATES beingpicked up, so she freaked out and started thrashing. It tooka few minutes to calm her down. She was doing the "panting"thing for a couple of minutes. I thought she was going tohave a heart attack.

Laura

Rabbit can breathe through there mouths but not well.

I know that because my friend had a kit get milk down his nose whilefeeding from his mom and spent 3 days gasping for air through hismouth. Unfortunately that baby died but they can breathe through theirmouths.

Also, panting is a common sign of heat stroke.

BACKGROUND PAPER IN SUPPORT OF FUMONISIN LEVELS IN ANIMAL FEED: EXECUTIVE
SUMMARY OF THIS SCIENTIFIC SUPPORT DOCUMENT
November 9, 2001
FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine
The complete document of the following can be downloaded from:
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/fumonbg4.html
SUMMARY:
The purpose of this document is to provide the scientific support behind our
(CVM's) recommended maximum levels for fumonisins in animal feed (Table I).
Fumonisins are environmental toxins produced by molds and found primarily in
corn. The major types of fumonisins are B1 (FB1), B2 (FB2) and B3 (FB3).
Our goal was to identify fumonisin levels in feed that are adequate to
protect animal and human health and that are achievable with the use of good
agricultural and good manufacturing practices. We wish to emphasize that the
recommended levels are intended to provide guidance that may change
following public input and are not to be considered tolerances. Future
research and/or different interpretations of existing research could change
the recommended values.
These recommendations are the result of reviewing the published literature
to determine the effects of fumonisins when fed to various animals,
including horses, rabbits, catfish, ruminants, poultry and mink. There were
many gaps in the literature regarding the feeding of low levels of
fumonisins to animals. Although this compelled some extrapolation of the
data to establish draft guidance levels for fumonisins in the diets of
various species, all calculations are derived from factors found in the
literature.
In six instances, we grouped species together because the animals seemed to
have a similar sensitivity to fumonisins. This is an attempt to avoid a
multitude of guidance levels and does not necessarily imply that the species
are biologically similar.
Horses and rabbits were grouped together as the most sensitive species. Corn
and corn by-products used in rations of horses and rabbits should contain
less than 5 ppm of FB1 + FB2 + FB3 and comprise no more than 20% of the dry
weight of the total ration
(Table I). The total ration should contain less than 1 ppm of FB1 + FB2 +
FB3 (0.2 x 5 ppm FB1 + FB2 + FB3 = 1 ppm of FB1 + FB2 + FB3).
Catfish and swine were grouped together as intermediate in sensitivity to
fumonisins. Corn and corn by-products used in rations of catfish and swine
should contain less than 20 ppm of FB1 + FB2 + FB3 and comprise no more than
50% of the dry weight of the total ration (Table I). The total ration should
contain less than 10 ppm of FB1 + FB2 + FB3 (0.5 x 20 ppm of FB1 + FB2 + FB3
= 10 ppm of FB1 + FB2 + FB3).
Ruminants, mink and poultry were considered more resistant than horses,
rabbits, catfish and swine to fumonisin; however, there was no data found in
ruminants and mink at total dietary levels between 25 and 100 ppm of total
fumonisins, while the data in poultry at these levels was more robust. Due
to this data gap, we were more conservative in our recommendations for
ruminants and mink than in poultry.
Corn and corn by-products used in rations of ruminants that are at least 3
months old and fed for slaughter and in rations of mink fed for pelt
production should contain less than 60 ppm of FB1 + FB2 + FB3 and comprise
no more than 50% of the dry weight of the total ration (Table I). The total
ration should contain less than 30 ppm of FB1 + FB2 + FB3 (0.5 x 60 ppm of
FB1 + FB2 + FB3 = 30 ppm of FB1 + FB2 + FB3).
Corn and corn by-products used in rations of poultry fed for slaughter
should contain less than 100 ppm of FB1 + FB2 + FB3 and comprise no more
than 50% of the dry weight of the total ration (Table I). The total ration
should contain less than 50 ppm of FB1 + FB2 + FB3 (0.5 x 100 ppm of FB1 +
FB2 + FB3 = 50 ppm of FB1 + FB2 + FB3).
The National Center for Toxicological Research (NCTR in Jefferson, AR)
recently completed a chronic dietary bioassay with purified FB1. This study
showed clear evidence of kidney tumors in male rats and of liver tumors in
female mice at dietary levels of 50 ppm and above.
We believe 15 ppm of FB1 + FB2 + FB3 in the total ration of mink, ruminant
and poultry breeding stock should provide adequate protection against any
potential carcinogenic effects in these animals. This recommendation is
based upon the NCTR chronic study
where 15 ppm FB1 produced the same or fewer kidney and liver tumors compared
to the controls. Corn and corn by-products used in the rations of mink,
ruminant and poultry breeding stock should contain less than 30 ppm of FB1 +
FB2 + FB3 and comprise no more than 50% of the dry weight of the total
ration (Table I). If the recommended total fumonisin level in the total
ration for a species was less than 15 ppm, we did not believe that the
breeding stock of the species needed additional protection from possible
carcinogenic effects.
The last grouping was of animal species/classes not mentioned above (e.g.
dogs, cats). Often there was no published dietary study with fumonisins in
these animals and no historical indication/association of problems from
feeding corn. We believe 5 ppm of FB1 + FB2 + FB3 in the total ration should
provide adequate protection against any potential acute and/or carcinogenic
effects in these animals. This recommendation is based largely upon the NCTR
chronic study where 5 ppm FB1 appeared to be the
no-observed-adverse-effect level. Corn and corn by-products used in the
rations of these animals should contain less than 10 ppm of FB1 + FB2 + FB3
and comprise no more than 50% of the dry weight of the total ration (Table
I).
We acknowledge that extensively validated "quick" or confirmation tests are
not commercially available for total rations. However, the Association of
Official Analytical Chemists International has established an official
method (995.15) for determining fumonisins B1, B2 and B3 in corn. In
addition, the United States Department of Agriculture's Grain Inspection,
Packers and Stockyards Administration (GIPSA) announced on June 5, 2001,
that two test kits have been approved for official testing of fumonisins in
the national grain inspection system. GIPSA authorized the use of the
Veratox Quantitative Fumonisin Test kit, manufactured by Neogen Corporation,
to determine fumonisins in corn, corn meal, popcorn, rough rice, corn/soy
blend, and wheat; and RIDASCREEN® FAST Fumonisin test kit, manufactured by
r-Biopharm Inc., for fumonisins in corn, corn meal, sorghum, corn gluten
meal, corn germ meal,
and corn/soy blend. We believe that the recommended fumonisin levels will
stimulate additional interest in developing and certifying/validating
confirmatory tests and "quick tests" for determining fumonisins in corn,
corn by-products, and complete animal feed rations.
The following is a summary of pivotal studies that were crucial in our
decision making. While we reviewed each publication listed in the reference
section, no attempt was made to summarize each article.

Carolyn wrote:

Itseems that a lot of medications that horses get, rabbits can handle aswell...weight and amounts considered.

Banamine (sp?), a pain killer, for horses with colic is also good pain for rabbits fighting GI Stasis.

Wondering what other treatments/medications might they have in common?

-Carolyn

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Other than similar diets being herbivores, I do find it worth notingthat rabbits respond better to horse products than they do to dog orcat products.

-Carolyn

pamnock wrote:

Lazyacre wrote:

Good Points Rick!

-rabbits practice eat their cecal products, don't know...dohorses -- Yes,http://www3.vet.upenn.edu/labs/equinebehavior//behmonth/behavdecb.htm

-rabbits were domesticated as food source, horses primarily as beast ofburden. - Horses are a common food source inmany countriestoday (the US exports over 100,000 lbs. of horse meat per year) as aswell as in ancient times.

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In rabbits inmgestion of cecotropes is common and normal behavior, inhorses (which don't produce cecotropes) it is "In adult horses,coprophagy is interpreted as a sign of nutritional deficiency or severedeprivation of more appropriate forage."

Well aware of both as food source, in fact I've tried both. Note I said"primarily as beast of burden" many more are ridden than are eaten anddoubt many rabbits have been ridden.

Lazyacre wrote:

Note I said"primarily as beast of burden" many more are ridden than are eaten anddoubt many rabbits have been ridden.

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I think rabbits and horses have similar fieldsof vision, ie very wide peripheral vision but not great at detailedvision right in front of them (eg compared to humans who are great atdetailed front vision, not so good at seeing round the side).

Although I think this is something that goes with being a prey animalrather than a predator, having eyes on the front of your head ratherthan round the side.

One difference is rabbits pop out large litters frequentlyandnumbers can multipy really fast in a year. Horses have a long gestationperiod and usually only one baby a year.

Horses cant dig. Not very much anyway!

Both canrun a darn sight faster than humans can. Although asothers have mentioned both are "flight" animals, rabbits have adifferent gait, I think their paws tend to go on the groundlike-2front, 2back, 2front, 2back etclike this..

:runningrabbit:



when they are running, whereas horses have complex gait movements when going at speed.

Good thread!

ND

I've always seen my rabbits do an extremely slowcanter, like a western jog to hop around, and just extend it do gofaster, only ever seen briar trot once.....that's just what my buns do.

When horses are cantering or galloping, it's just a three beat gait,and depending on which lead he/she is on, it's: Right Hind, Right foreand left hind together, left fore....in the gallop, it's just a heck ofa lot faster and more stretched out, closer to a four beat gait.

Ellie

Edit- I just watched Lilac on her turn out...the back to feet come downat the same time.....so, it's a canter w/ a bunny twist.....Banter,anyone???

Ivermectin paste (1.87%)?

While it's madefor horses,I've founditrecommended here (& elsewhere) in a tiny dab dose,to help with fleas & pinworms...? So I have purchaseda tube, but am still apprehensive to use it, but would like to tryit. (currently use Advantage)

How many people here use Ivermectin for horses, on house rabbits?

mysweetbunny wrote:

How many people here use Ivermectin for horses, on house rabbits?

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I do.

That said, some rabbits with blue genes, suchaseyesor coat color, have beenknown tohave some sensitivites withcertain medications.Buck Jones had it happen with his rabbit,Ernestine, who is ablue dutch.Luckily, the Ivermectin was expired andless potent and Ernestine, throughthetender lovingcare of Buck, made it and is fine today.

-Carolyn

pamnock wrote:

Lazyacre wrote:

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Note Isaid "primarily as beast of burden" many more are ridden than are eatenand doubt many rabbits have been ridden.

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northerndancer wrote:

I think rabbits and horses have similar fields of vision, ievery wide peripheral vision but not great at detailed vision right infront of them (eg compared to humans who are great at detailed frontvision, not so good at seeing round the side).

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That's true. Neither horses nor rabbits can see directly in front or behind them.