3rd litter and there's still a problem

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H

Hayase

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Some probably remember I made some thread regarding bout my doe's first (1 peanut and 2 normal) and second litters (2 peanuts and 1 normal) which unfortunately all dies less than 4 days.

This is Doe's 3rd litter (3 normal and 1 peanut) and this time it turns out to be better compare to first and second but there's still a problem

One of the baby is kinda small (perhaps runt ?) and have eyes problem, though I don't know if it born with no eyes or just some eye diseases (picture below)

My question is :
- What's happening with its eyes ? Can it be cured ?
- Why it's black despite both Littermates, Doe and Buck are brown ?

Thank you

1st day, the runt is kinda pale compare to both its littermate and peanut
20180718_235317.jpg


3rd day, I noticed both of its eyes is not normal compare to its littermate
20180721_223723.jpg


7th day, it's kinda small compare to its littermate
20180726_230113.jpg

9th day, still no improvement on both of its eyes
20180726_230406.jpg
20180726_230441.jpg
 
The color is sometimes because of the color of the fur
 
Once it has its eyes open update and probably take it to the vet once it doesn't need its mom and are the parents siblings
 
Rabbits with the dwarf gene can sometimes have babies called max factors, where they are born with their eyes open and usually have deformed hind limbs, and other possible genetic abnormalities like fur that's fluffier than usual. But from your pictures, I can't see that the hind limbs are deformed, but because of the open eyes I would still guess possible max factor. These babies if they continue to survive, will usually have ongoing health issues throughout their lives, including eye problems(which would need treatment, probably with antibiotic eye ointment/drops in the very least).
https://www.justrabbits.com/dwarf-rabbit.html

If this litter also ends up dying, you may have a feed issue or underlying health issue causing the poor neonatal survival. If so, you will need to address the possible cause in order to have litters that will survive.

With this high incidence of peanuts occurring and now a max factor baby. If you are using the same buck and doe pairing for all three of these litters, this may not be a good match genetic wise and you may want to use a different buck in the future.
 
JBun said:
Rabbits with the dwarf gene can sometimes have babies called max factors, where they are born with their eyes open and usually have deformed hind limbs, and other possible genetic abnormalities like fur that's fluffier than usual. But from your pictures, I can't see that the hind limbs are deformed, but because of the open eyes I would still guess possible max factor. These babies if they continue to survive, will usually have ongoing health issues throughout their lives, including eye problems(which would need treatment, probably with antibiotic eye ointment/drops in the very least).
https://www.justrabbits.com/dwarf-rabbit.html

If this litter also ends up dying, you may have a feed issue or underlying health issue causing the poor neonatal survival. If so, you will need to address the possible cause in order to have litters that will survive.

With this high incidence of peanuts occurring and now a max factor baby. If you are using the same buck and doe pairing for all three of these litters, this may not be a good match genetic wise and you may want to use a different buck in the future.
Click to expand...

yes those 3 litters are from same doe and same buck since I only have 1 doe and 1 buck

2 kits are quite healthy with same fur and same color as doe and buck
peanuts died at 2nd day
smallest one have black color, eyes problem and kinda longer fluffier fur (is it possible ?, since buck and doe are brown)
 
Yes, and I would consider getting another buck. At this point, you don’t know if it’s the doe or the buck causing the problem, or just a bad pairing. Peanuts are known to happen in certain breeds but it sounds like you are getting more than your share of them with this pairing.
 
majorv said:
Yes, and I would consider getting another buck. At this point, you don’t know if it’s the doe or the buck causing the problem, or just a bad pairing. Peanuts are known to happen in certain breeds but it sounds like you are getting more than your share of them with this pairing.
Click to expand...

just as JBun said and showed at his link, based on picture example of Max Factors and statement " (sometimes one can see fur stuck to the eye) " then I'm really sure the smallest runt has Max Factors

despite only just half-size of its biggest littermate and having eyes problem, it's quite healthy and still have appetite

perhaps I will wait till its eyes open to make sure
 
If the parents are related like from the same litter it can cause problems as while as bunnies with the dwarf gene so I would try another buck
 
Sophia said:
If the parents are related like from the same litter it can cause problems as while as bunnies with the dwarf gene so I would try another buck
Click to expand...

I don't know if Buck and Doe are from same litter since I got it from other people, but judging from their Fur (Doe's fur is softer and silkier than Buck) and Head (Buck has shorter ears and rounder face) then probably not
 
The peanuts mean that both of your rabbits are true dwarfs they are not false dwarf and this is what happens when breeding any breed with the dwarf Genes it doesn't mean a bad pairing most breeders want both sire and dam to be true dwarfs
 
Last edited:
It’s eyes look really bad. Does it act in pain? So sad to hear, I wouldn’t want that ever to happen in my litters... definitely change one of the parents.
 
*update

here's pic at 12th Day, it still hasn't open eyes while its littermates already open eyes and nibbling hays. It appears also having a dental issue at lower teeth since I notice it can't close its mouth completely unlike its littermates

20180728_151105.jpg
20180728_151152.jpg
 
The babies eyes are open, in that the eyelids are no longer closed over the eye. The problem is the baby was born this way, with it's eyelids open because of it being a max factor baby, so the eyes weren't protected and were damaged, which means the baby will be blind. I can't tell exactly from the picture, but if there is the presence of infection, then this will need to be treated with the appropriate ophthalmic antibiotic eye ointment/drop medication.

Then you have the teeth to deal with. It looks like the incisors don't line up correctly to keep each other worn down to the proper length. So this means that they will continue to grow and affect the babies ability to nurse, which means they will need to be trimmed regularly to keep them at the proper length. Which may need to be started soon.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Dental_diseases/Differential/D_problems1.htm

Health issues could be an ongoing problem with this baby because of the max factor genetics. So you may need to consider what the quality of life will be like for this rabbit. If it's suffering, then the kindest thing would be to humanely put to sleep. But on the other hand, even a blind rabbit with dental issues can have a good quality of life if the health problems are managed properly so the rabbit isn't suffering. So this is just something you are going to have to consider and decide what the best thing is for this baby.
 
JBun said:
The babies eyes are open, in that the eyelids are no longer closed over the eye. The problem is the baby was born this way, with it's eyelids open because of it being a max factor baby, so the eyes weren't protected and were damaged, which means the baby will be blind. I can't tell exactly from the picture, but if there is the presence of infection, then this will need to be treated with the appropriate ophthalmic antibiotic eye ointment/drop medication.

Then you have the teeth to deal with. It looks like the incisors don't line up correctly to keep each other worn down to the proper length. So this means that they will continue to grow and affect the babies ability to nurse, which means they will need to be trimmed regularly to keep them at the proper length. Which may need to be started soon.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Dental_diseases/Differential/D_problems1.htm

Health issues could be an ongoing problem with this baby because of the max factor genetics. So you may need to consider what the quality of life will be like for this rabbit. If it's suffering, then the kindest thing would be to humanely put to sleep. But on the other hand, even a blind rabbit with dental issues can have a good quality of life if the health problems are managed properly so the rabbit isn't suffering. So this is just something you are going to have to consider and decide what the best thing is for this baby.
Click to expand...

it's my favourite kit since it's smallest of the litter, unfortunately as you said that it has lot of issues

last one really shock me, it scratch its own eyes with feet (probably itchy because of its eye disease) and suddenly something similar to tiny round crystal ball fell down from its eye along with lot of blood (I'm not sure if it is its own eye ball, since it's clear like glass) but seeing that directly makes me feel really sad and scared

will bring it to nearest breeder or vet to know if this kit dan be saved and healed completely especially eyes and teeth
 
majorv said:
If the kit’s quality of life will not be good then it’s best to euthanize it. I know this can be hard but if you plan to breed its something you must be willing to do.
Click to expand...

I don't think I have courage to euthanize it, still with both of its eyes and teeth like that I honestly not too sure about its quality of life
 
If you aren’t able to make that decision you should go to a vet so you can discuss together.
 
*last update, will move to new thread

Here's the last condition of 3 babies from 3rd litter after more than 1 months :
- Both Brown Babies are healthy and have no problem at all, Fur and Eyes are clean, Poops are still small but hard just like Adult Poops, Good appetite for Hays and Water
- Max Factor Baby was dead after 1 month. 2 days before died, it has no appetite at all either Hays or Water, I forced it to drink doe's milk but it didn't want to drink, long teeth even after trimmed twice


- Bigger Baby (Long Ear, Less Round face)
20180809_232003.jpg

- Smaller Baby (Short Ear, Round Face)
20180816_002103.jpg

- Smallest Baby (Max Factor, Have no Eyes at all, around 2/3 size of its siblings)
20180812_210951.jpg
 
oh my goodness it lived for that long!!!? If it were one of my kits, I would've euthanized it after a couple of days as that could not have been nice for the bunny... poor thing. I have a kit in my litter of 12 which might need to be euthanized as it is very weak and not getting milk... I love the small ears and round facs of the brown buns though - very cute!
 
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