Bunny dropping brown liquid !

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M

Mal

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Hi,
My bunny has been dropping brown liquid for a long time now. I wasn’t sure what it was at the start, but after many vet visits, antibiotics, multiple amendments to his diet no one can help me.
He started having poopy butt, so I reduced the amount of grain mix and increaseed his hay and greens. Since then the liquid started.
He then he started to get weird shaped fecal pellets also.
Some were perfectly normal shaped, some smaller (normal colour and texture) some very big oval shaped, long logs and abnormally shaped also.
I don’t know what else I can do and I’m so worried about him. His cecals (when I really see them) have changed texture too, they break apart rather than squish together and they have water juice around them not sticky grapes.
The exotic vets I have been to have no idea about rabbits and just tell me not to let him eat house plants. Which I already know.
Please help!!
 
Hi there, I may not be able to help you directly but I know those who will, will have these questions.

What greens are you feeding him, what type of hay? How much of each is he getting a day?
How old is he, is he neutered? Or if you don't know how old, how long have you had him?
How long exactly has he been doing this, days, weeks, months?
When you say grain mix, what is in this mix? Is it timothy hay based pellets?
Also, how many greens did you introduce to him at one time? Usually I've seen it recommended here to only use one green at a time in case of issues like this, you can pin point exactly what caused the issue and avoid it in the future.

Rabbits should not be eating anything with seeds in it, which is why I ask about the grain. It should be a high fiber timothy hay based pellet, unlimited hay and a little bit of greens a day (romaine lettuce, green leaf lettuce, a small bit of kale usually doesn't hurt but you don't want too much or daily since it's too high in oxalates, dandylion greens, escarole, and chicory primarily)
 
lilnaugrim said:
Hi there, I may not be able to help you directly but I know those who will, will have these questions.

What greens are you feeding him, what type of hay? How much of each is he getting a day?
How old is he, is he neutered? Or if you don't know how old, how long have you had him?
How long exactly has he been doing this, days, weeks, months?
When you say grain mix, what is in this mix? Is it timothy hay based pellets?
Also, how many greens did you introduce to him at one time? Usually I've seen it recommended here to only use one green at a time in case of issues like this, you can pin point exactly what caused the issue and avoid it in the future.

Rabbits should not be eating anything with seeds in it, which is why I ask about the grain. It should be a high fiber timothy hay based pellet, unlimited hay and a little bit of greens a day (romaine lettuce, green leaf lettuce, a small bit of kale usually doesn't hurt but you don't want too much or daily since it's too high in oxalates, dandylion greens, escarole, and chicory primarily)
Click to expand...

Hey,
So he eats oaten hay unlimited and he has always eaten all different sorts of greens. spinach, rocket, Bok choy which have never effected him. ( about a cup per day) He was eating a green/ hay mix that had a few pellets and seeds in it until I realised it wasn’t good for him. so i reduced it massively and only gave him a small amount of one that was mainly hay and grass based (i thought this would be healthier) it stopped his sticky cecals that were badly stuck to his tail everyday, but this liquid started instead. For the last week he has been solely on oaten hay, to see if that would get his tummy back to normal but it hasn’t worked. And his decal poops are never consistent size now, which they already were. He’s 5.5 years old, neutered. if it would get back to normal then I could be more careful with food, but nothing I do stops it.
 
A few questions. How long has this been going on? Was a fecal float ever done to rule out coccidia? What about a blood test to check liver function?

Usually mushy poop(where the cecals are mushy with normal fecal poop) often occurs from too many sugars/carbs in the diet, but when the fecal poop is odd shaped it usually means there is something more going on.
https://rabbit.org/intermittent-soft-cecotropes-in-rabbits/
http://sawneeanimalclinic.com/downloads/chronic_intermittent_diarrhea_in_rabbits.pdf

To me it sounds like your rabbit has developed signs of megacolon, which the odd shaped fecal poop can be a primary indication of. It happens when the nerves in the digestive tract aren't functioning properly. Most often this is a genetic trait in charlie rabbits(white with little coloring), though it can occur in other color rabbits, and can be acquired from illness(like coccidiosis) or surgery. Your rabbit could have developed this from a coccidiosis infection. I would immediately want a fecal float test done if one hasn't been done since the odd shaped poop started. It might also be a good idea to have a blood test done to rule out liver problems if the fecal test doesn't show anything. Coccidiosis is treated with a sulfa antibiotic or baycox(more effective, faster treatment, though may cause some digestive upset). If the antibiotic your bun was on previously wasn't a sulfa one, I would consider asking the vet to treat for cocci even if the fecal test didn't show positive, just because fecal results won't always be accurate. Though this is something to discuss with your vet.
https://www.vgr1.com/megacolon/
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Protozoal_diseases/Cocc_en.htm

If you have access to a different type of grass hay, it might be worth trying that instead of the oat hay. Mature oat hay has a lot of oat grain in it that can cause digestive problems for some rabbits because of the excess carbs, or can worsen preexisting digestive illness. Though I do believe there is something more going on with your rabbit that hay alone won't cure, getting your bun on a low sugar/carb hay like orchard, timothy, meadow, etc may help a lot. I've had three rabbits with megacolon, two were born with it and one acquired it. The two most recent had to be on a no pellet, no treat, no grain diet. They were on a non grain hay like timothy and leafy greens/forage. Any pellets or high starch foods would always make their digestive problems much worse. As long as they remained on a non grain hay and leafy greens, they did pretty well. So finding a good non grain hay for your bun may not cure the problem, but could lessen the symptoms quite a bit. If it turns out to be coccidiosis and is cured with treatment, you may be able to put your bun back on normal foods again, but if like my bun that acquired megacolon, permanent damage occurred to his digestive tract and he never could go back onto pellets/starchy foods again.

If you are wanting to find a better rabbit vet, you have an experienced rabbit vet in your area that specifically does rabbits and gp I believe, if you haven't tried them already. Though it does sound like their costs may be a bit more. There are also a few others listed on the second link of rabbit savvy vets.
http://www.melbournerabbitclinic.com/
http://rabbitvet.net/AustralianRabbitVets.htm
 
JBun said:
A few questions. How long has this been going on? Was a fecal float ever done to rule out coccidia? What about a blood test to check liver function?

Usually mushy poop(where the cecals are mushy with normal fecal poop) often occurs from too many sugars/carbs in the diet, but when the fecal poop is odd shaped it usually means there is something more going on.
https://rabbit.org/intermittent-soft-cecotropes-in-rabbits/
http://sawneeanimalclinic.com/downloads/chronic_intermittent_diarrhea_in_rabbits.pdf

To me it sounds like your rabbit has developed signs of megacolon, which the odd shaped fecal poop can be a primary indication of. It happens when the nerves in the digestive tract aren't functioning properly. Most often this is a genetic trait in charlie rabbits(white with little coloring), though it can occur in other color rabbits, and can be acquired from illness(like coccidiosis) or surgery. Your rabbit could have developed this from a coccidiosis infection. I would immediately want a fecal float test done if one hasn't been done since the odd shaped poop started. It might also be a good idea to have a blood test done to rule out liver problems if the fecal test doesn't show anything. Coccidiosis is treated with a sulfa antibiotic or baycox(more effective, faster treatment, though may cause some digestive upset). If the antibiotic your bun was on previously wasn't a sulfa one, I would consider asking the vet to treat for cocci even if the fecal test didn't show positive, just because fecal results won't always be accurate. Though this is something to discuss with your vet.
https://www.vgr1.com/megacolon/
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Protozoal_diseases/Cocc_en.htm

If you have access to a different type of grass hay, it might be worth trying that instead of the oat hay. Mature oat hay has a lot of oat grain in it that can cause digestive problems for some rabbits because of the excess carbs, or can worsen preexisting digestive illness. Though I do believe there is something more going on with your rabbit that hay alone won't cure, getting your bun on a low sugar/carb hay like orchard, timothy, meadow, etc may help a lot. I've had three rabbits with megacolon, two were born with it and one acquired it. The two most recent had to be on a no pellet, no treat, no grain diet. They were on a non grain hay like timothy and leafy greens/forage. Any pellets or high starch foods would always make their digestive problems much worse. As long as they remained on a non grain hay and leafy greens, they did pretty well. So finding a good non grain hay for your bun may not cure the problem, but could lessen the symptoms quite a bit. If it turns out to be coccidiosis and is cured with treatment, you may be able to put your bun back on normal foods again, but if like my bun that acquired megacolon, permanent damage occurred to his digestive tract and he never could go back onto pellets/starchy foods again.

If you are wanting to find a better rabbit vet, you have an experienced rabbit vet in your area that specifically does rabbits and gp I believe, if you haven't tried them already. Though it does sound like their costs may be a bit more. There are also a few others listed on the second link of rabbit savvy vets.
http://www.melbournerabbitclinic.com/
http://rabbitvet.net/AustralianRabbitVets.htm
Click to expand...
Yeah so it has been going on for 2-3 months, with multiple attempts to go to different vets and removing things from diet. The vets just guess at things and don’t really offer any ideas as to what it could be, then just give him antibiotics or ask me what tests I want done. They have never even suggested one thing it could be, they just try to make out like he’s fine and normal.
I did ready the mega colon stuff but it does say that it’s normally all of his poos that are that shape, where as he has normal lookin ones aswell.
I’m hesitant to change his hay though because I don’t want to cause it to get worse, from changing his diet.
If it ever stopped from what I was feeding I would keep him on that diet, but nothing stops it.
I have read articles that say diet changes can take weeks to fixed the cecal issues ...
he’s going to yet another vet tomorrow, so I will see what they say. :’(
 
one of my bun has the same issue for months so i have done a lot of research on ISC so far. she was seen 2 months ago and did a blood test and x-ray to see if it was caused by non-diet related problems. I wound suggest you to do a blood test and x-ray and probably urinalysis if changing his diet doesn't resolve his problem.
since my bun's test results are conclusive so i decided to change her pellets and reduce the amount of veggies. i changed from oxbow garden select to oxbow organic pellet and so far i haven't see brown liquid smeared on the floor afterward.
oat hay is actually one of those causing her brown liquid as well. it's better to offer buns timothy hays but you have to do it slowly
 
maiyaeh said:
one of my bun has the same issue for months so i have done a lot of research on ISC so far. she was seen 2 months ago and did a blood test and x-ray to see if it was caused by non-diet related problems. I wound suggest you to do a blood test and x-ray and probably urinalysis if changing his diet doesn't resolve his problem.
since my bun's test results are conclusive so i decided to change her pellets and reduce the amount of veggies. i changed from oxbow garden select to oxbow organic pellet and so far i haven't see brown liquid smeared on the floor afterward.
oat hay is actually one of those causing her brown liquid as well. it's better to offer buns timothy hays but you have to do it slowly
Click to expand...
So that’s what the vet believes it probably is. they said there was a high amount of years in his poop, which I thought hay would fix. but maybe it is the oaten hay then? he has always had it though which is weird. He doesn’t eat pellets so I can’t even change that. hay and green veg is all he eats. how gradual do you change the hay over to Timothy and how long did it take for the ISC to fix itself.
 
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