No veggies at all ???

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Thumperina

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  • Stasis and poopy butt... what foods increase your rabbits risk?
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    Why do all of these foods increase the risk for stasis and other digestive problems like poopy butt?

    1. The more of these foods that your rabbit eats the less hay they eat - hay prevents digestive problems.

    2. These foods ferment way too fast and support the growth of bad bacteria.

    Fermentation is the process by which bacteria (good and bad) break down food and fiber in the digestive tract.
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    slow fermentation of hay (cellulose) in the digestive tract is healthy

    Fermentation mostly takes place in the ceacum near the end of the digestive tract.
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    Good bacteria ferment hay

    Only good bacteria can break down the hay your rabbit eats.

    Prebiotic: Hay is the food (prebiotic) that supports the slow growth of healthy bacteria. Fermenting hay requires special enzymes that only these types of bacteria can make. Bad bacteria do not grow well on a grass hay-only diet.


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    Cecotropes: The good bacteria have special digestive enzymes that slowly break down hay and release nutrients. Some of these nutrients are absorbed by your rabbit. The remaining 'product' (mixture of fermented hay and bacteria cells) is made into a cecotrope that your rabbit re-ingests (eats this special poop). The cecotrope is very rich in protein and other nutrients (from bacteria cells) that are easy for the rabbit to digest.


    Too many of the wrong foods can cause problems with fermentation.
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    Feeding too many fruits, veggies, tender greens (including fresh green grass), or other farm grown foods support the growth of bad bacteria that grow much faster than the healthy bacteria.

    Bad bacteria grow well on these food sources because they are rich in easily accessible protein, carbohydrates and short fibers that ferment too quickly (pectin, hemi-cellulose and other polysaccharides).

    Gas and Bloating: The fast growth of bad bacteria produces large amounts of gas that cause bloating.




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    ps. Bad bacteria rob nutrients from healthy bacteria and suppress their growth.


    Feeding foods that ferment too fast (such as grains, fruits, veggies, and even salads) increases the risk for digestive problems.

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    Note: Feeding less fast fermenting foods (grain, soy, fruits, veggies, and greens) that support the fast growth of bad bacteria will improve digestive health better than feeding more hay which supports the slow growth of good bacteria.


    Un-eaten Cecotropes: The rapid growth of bad bacteria changes the pH and other growing conditions in the ceacum.

    An early warning sign of stasis is the presence of uneaten cecotropes that often creates a mushy mess known as 'poopy butt'.


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    un-eaten cecotropes are an early warning sign of digestion problems that may lead to stasis!

    Should you feed salads and other greens to your rabbit?
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    Farm grown salads are well watered and fertilized (even organic) and have been bred/selected for tenderness and sweetness.

    Rabbits did not evolve eating these types of salads.

    If you decide to feed salads feed them as a 'treat' and not a 'meal'. Grass hay is foundational to your rabbits diet.



    Most rabbits tolerate lots of salads, greens, and even veggies, fruits, and grain-based treats. However, if one day they eat a little less hay than they normally do then they will be at a higher risk for stasis and bloat.

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    TRIVIA

    What is more effective at improving fermentation (digestive health)?
    Feeding more hay
    1. increasing the amount of cellulose (hay) your rabbit eats? (supporting the growth of good bacteria)

    OR

    Feeding less other foods
    2. decreasing the amount of fast-fermenting food your rabbit eats (like grains, fruits, veggies, & tender greens)?(supporting the growth of bad bacteria)

    click a choice to find the answer


    Summary
    For better digestive health and to lower the risk of stasis encourage your rabbit to eat more hay by feeding less fruits, veggies, greens, and treats that are made with grain.



 
this is the info i received from a well known producer of goods for rabbbits (Sherwood pet health) in attempt to change my rabbits' habits for better health.
But no veggies at all? what do you all think?
 
Sherwood makes pellets so...I would rather see a independent scientific study done. That being said, our rabbits lived solely on pellets and hay for years and we rarely ever had gut issues. Our rabbits were used for show and breeding, not kept as pets.
 
Rabbits evolved eating green stuff, so forage, grass etc. is no problem. It's the mainstay of my rabbits diet, I only feed some apple and carrots along with hay in winter.
Although hay doesn't really exist in nature, it is just conserved forage and as close to the real thing as it can get short of letting your bunny roam the meadows.

The Info above imho is, at large, correct, although quite on the alarmist side (or with an agenda) and might be misunderstood if one doesn't consider the difference between forage, (weeds, grass) and veggies.

This is an excellentsite about this topic:
https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits

The real issue is when the diet is too rich, no matter what kind of food. Vegetables and salads grown for human consumption can be quite rich, that might cause problems, and that's what the summery says.

I like to keep my rabbits diet diverse since they need to be able to deal with whatever they find outside, and rather lean. Veggies as treats and not as staple food are imho no problem for a normal, healthy bunny.

But there are many good ways to feed a rabbit so that it stays healthy, hay and good pellets work equally well for many, there is no absolute truth (as there isn't one about how to feed humans ;) ). And not everything one rabbit can stomach is right for every other, but when problems occur rethinking their diet is a good idea.
 
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I agree with @majorv and @Preitler , a rabbit can live healthily on Just hay and a small amount of pellets, and veg can be given as a “treat” but is not essential.
If you are having problems with gut stasis, he first thing to cut out should be veggies, then pellets, as hay and grass are very important.
 
Interesting that when we read what to do when you suspect your rabbit start falling into stasis is "Give lots of wet juicy vegetables", or is it incorrect? I can swear I have read this advice in every article I've read about stasis.
Can someone tell me what to do and how to convert your rabbit into eating a lot of hay, if your rabbit doesn't drink any water at all? this is why I am pushing wet veggies, veggies, veggies, and this is not right.
 
That’s not something I’ve heard, other than when a bunny won’t eat at all offer tasty veggies because it is better to eat those than nothing. But if possible hay is always better in my opinion.
I think your situation is very difficult, as like you said your bunnies just won’t drink water! Rabbits truly don’t need thaaaat much water and I would say that a small amount of wet greens would provide enough moisture for them, but obviously it’s so warm there that it is difficult to judge..
 
Hay, hay, hay, hay, hay! I agree! But, treats are fine. Hay should be at least 85-90% of the diet. Nothing else is really needed; but nice as a treat for rabbits’ mindset.
 
Sherwood does have some interesting info. I think their main focus is that their pellets are grain and soy free. I have yet to see any other pellet food that is free of grains and soy. Grains are high in carbs which are difficult for bunny to digest.

If I recall correctly, Jenny (Jbun) typically recommends a rabbit with digestive issues back off on pellets. Typical pellets with grain and soy could exacerbate the digestive process.

Also, I've read that one should feed "greens" moreso than "veggies" or fruits. Root veggies and fruits are high in sugar and carbs -- again, can make digestion difficult.

Perhaps leafy greens (forage, grass) are safer to feed than too many "veggies" and/or pellets with grain/soy. As Prietler mentioned, that seems more natural in the wild anyway.

Thumperina's question: "Can someone tell me what to do and how to convert your rabbit into eating a lot of hay, if your rabbit doesn't drink any water at all? this is why I am pushing wet veggies, veggies, veggies, and this is not right."

Rabbits will drink when thirsty. If they aren't drinking, they likely are getting their moisture elsewhere -- likely from greens. But high carb veggies could discourage them from eating hay (or grass). If they are eating lots of grass, they don't need that hay since hay is just dried grass.

I have noticed that my rabbits drink more water if they eat lots of hay. If they were eating fresh grass instead of hay, I would guess they would not drink so much water since grass is moist.
 

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