I can't handle my bunnies

I have three rabbits..

Cooper, a dwarf lop (neutered male)
Deacon, lion head cross with a Netherland dwarf (neutered male)
Addison" Netherland dwarf (un neutered female)

I have had them all since June 2013 when they were just 8 weeks. They are indoor rabbits and I make sure they are out everyday running around and being picked up. However things are getting slowly worse and I cannot even pick up Cooper or Addison without being scratched or bitten. I can hold deacon for all of five minutes before he starts doing the same. I thought getting the boys neutered would help but they are still chewing everything and the whole situation is just turning into a big mess. Can anyone help me please I'm desperate!!!

I still consider myself a new bunny parent with my first Jersey wooly girls who will soon be turning 2! I'm wondering since you have 2 neutered males if the unspayed female's hormonal scent may be causing a problem with the males. Just my guess but I too will be interested to read replies to your post from our more experienced members.

How are you picking them up? Have you tried using a football hold or are you just picking them up like you would a cat? Usually a football hold they can't see while they're up in the air. They may just be afraid.

I have two agouti's that are going on two years old soon and I can not pick them up at all. Lady the new Lop I rescued I am getting her used to me putting my hands on her, but I can't pick her up without getting some kicks. My Agouti's scratch the heck out of me also when I try to pick them up to move them at times. I personally think it's personality. I think some of these guys just don't like to be held and it's from the prey instinct /fight or flight and it never wears off. I've gotten used to I cannot pick up Chica and Chico the agouti's and the vet knows that and we just open the cage and let them out. However, I have them trained to go to their cage at the end of play time and they know "go to your crate" and I tap on the lid as I have done since they were weeks old and they go automatically. I've got Lady the Lop now trained and I've had her since November 7 2013 to go to the crate when I have to let the dogs out when she runs around the kitchen.

Are you talking about picking them up at the end of playtime or in general? Like I said in general I know two of my babies I can never pick up. Period. They will freak out. End of playtime for that reason I trained them to go to their crates on cue and they do and so does one of my new bunnies Lady..

Don't know if it helped.. probably not..

Vanessa

Generally speaking, rabbits don't like being picked up. They don't like being off the ground or held because they are a prey animal and lifting or grabbing at them is what a predator would do. I rarely pick up my rabbit, only when taking her to the vet or to inspect her for health reasons. You would think that because they were handled since babies that they would always be okay with being picked up and such but I've read a lot of people saying that their buns suddenly hated it as they became mature. I don't know if there are other circumstances that are making them like that but it wouldn't be abnormal for them to not want to be held or picked up.

I think it is just the individual bunny, but in general I agree that bunnies don't like being picked up. My bun hates it but she will allow me to pet her.

Some bunnies can handle it, and most can't. I don't hold mine unless I have no choice but to move them. I'm lucky if they let me pet them for half a minute. I just accept them as they are. They need me. Peaches hates for me to pet her, but if I need to I can hold her. Posey is the exact opposite. She loves pets, but it is the end of the world if I need to pick her up.

You may need to learn to pick them up in a different way than what you are. From everything I have read some buns may prefer one way of being picked up to another. The buns may pick up on your feelings if you are not confident when you pick them up. You could try picking them up for just a second and rewarding them with a safe bunny treat when you pick them up.

As far as the chewing goes, their teeth grow all of the time so it is important for them to chew although for a lot of buns chewing their hay and pellets are enough for them. Offer plenty of items that your buns are allowed to chew on. If they still chew on items you do not want to have them chew on then the best thing you can probably do is to block them from those items. I know it can be difficult, I have been there myself. Buns can be very stubborn.

All my bunnies that I've had, I've had them since babies. I've had 5 bunnies in my lifetime of owning bunnies, & only 1, that's right, 1, loved it. Two of them, would bite, kick & just plain freak it like the world was coming to an end, if I tired to hold them. I would only handle them if needed for the vet. One of my current guys is like that. My other bunny will tolerate being held, but dosent like it. The baby I have is starting to not like it either, but he does let me.

In my experience, most bunnies don't like to be held. If you want something to cuddle with, get a dog or cat lol

I would definitely start by getting Addison spayed. And if you're picking her up where the others can see what happens, they may be learning from her aggressive behavior and your reaction.

Secondly, make sure you aren't wearing anything with a smell that is putting them on the defensive -- clothes that a dog or cat has rubbed against, perfume, smoke from cigarettes or grilling, etc. Even lotion on the hands will put them off since they don't recognize you as you when those "strange" hands come to get them.

Next, you can try giving them less freedom and make getting their freedom a reward for getting picked up. I've learned with 20 years of rabbits that the more freedom they have, the less likely they are to let you pick them up. It seems the people who can easily pick up their rabbits have them in cages or a confined space most of the time, so their rabbits associate getting picked up with more freedom, not less (plus it gives them relief from boredom and loneliness). If you're picking them up while they are out running, they are losing their freedom, which is a negative thing, and you need to find ways to associate being picked up with positive things. Some people use treats, aka bribes.

One thing I have never done is to pick up my bunnies when they come to me looking for petting, because I don't want them to avoid me. I also don't pick them up to carry them to the table for nail clipping, etc. Instead, when I need to get them I set the carrier down in front of them, and most of them will hunker down and let me lift them into it (my dwarf bunny has to be corraled with a small fence, then she will hop in to avoid being lifted). Once they're on the table, they will let me lift them onto the scale, or to move them around, since they don't get far from a solid surface there, so you might want to start desensitizing them to lifting while they're on a table, and with only small lifts. That has the advantage that if you do have to set them back down on the table because they're making a fuss, they aren't regaining complete freedom, which would just reinforce the behavior.

Finding a way to hold and support them securely from the get-go is key, since they will sense if you're hesitant or not supporting their body adequately. Try different positions holding them. One of mine will only let me pick him up if I wrap my entire upper body across his and support both sides of him with my arms. Another wants to be upright on my chest with his head tucked under my chin, while another wants to lie on my arm with his head tucked between my elbow and ribs (I guess that's the football position mentioned above). My dwarves have always been the most feisty (except the Jersey Woolies) and difficult to pick up, so it's not unusual that you're having problems with them. But they are small enough to cuddle securely against your body, so that's a benefit.

Here is an excellent article about picking up a rabbit: http://www.rabbitrehome.org.uk/care/handling.asp

and a few more that may also help:
http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/resources/content/info-sheets/viciousbun.htm
http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/grumpy.shtml

Good luck!

Here's a video I made a little while back showing how I pick up and handle my bunnies (at the time, I had two girls, both spayed/both with me since 7-8 weeks old):

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1qGcjM7syk[/ame]

Note: it's a very long video... I'll quote post I made in the thread where I originally posted the video that gives time-stamps for the highlights:

Imbrium said:

First 30 seconds or so, I'm introducing the naughties.
At 30 seconds in, I start showing ways to pick up Nala.
2:18 - I've moved on to picking up Gaz and Nala makes a break for it!
3:05 - I go back to Nala for nail trims; you'll see me picking her up without supporting her hind legs at all. Not recommended for obvious reasons with many bunnies, but a few rare exceptions (like Nala) really don't mind. I wasn't thinking and just picked her up out of habit
3:40 - flipping Nala over
4:00 - Nala's nail trim; I also discuss how to deal with fur getting in the way and what to do with dark nails that you can't see the quick through.
At some point, I switch to Gazzle's nails (I forgot to note)
11 minutes in - how to deal with overgrown nails
12:55 - rabbit "discipline" (the trick of pressing their head down... Gazzles is ridiculously uncooperative about this when she knows **** well she hasn't been naughty)
16:10 - Gazzles bites me, gets disciplined for real and is much more accepting of it

I know it's a lot to watch - it's like 3-4 "how to" videos rolled into one, plus I tend to ramble and the rabbits like to create diversions from time to time ><

Hopefully it's at least a little helpful despite the overall lack of struggling. You do see them struggle a little bit during nail trims, and the only reason they don't struggle a LOT more is because I'm firm with them and confident in what I'm doing - when they start to get feisty, I put a stop to it immediately.

Despite a reputation for being "frail," you can hold a bunny quite firmly without hurting them at all as long as you've got them properly supported - the odds of them hurting themselves from not being controlled are actually much higher than the odds of you hurting them with a firm but supportive hold. You can minimize their movements without being forceful. In the video, you'll see that I definitely don't handle my bunnies like they're fragile! I would never, ever do anything that might hurt them, but a certain amount of firmness is just plain necessary to convince them to behave - if you're terrified of hurting them, the little naughties will absolutely take advantage!

Click to expand...

Also, here's a video of Normie's first nail trim - he was *very* opposed to being picked up when I first got him and I deliberately waited until I was filming the video to flip him on his back for the first time:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQzlUM2NEFY[/ame]

I also recommend browsing these two threads, as we had some really great discussions in them:
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f40/ho...rried-handled-any-other-way-clip-nails-78184/
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f40/what-point-do-you-stop-trying-pick-up-unruly-bunny-78317/

I have three rabbits total... Gaz is iffy on cuddling most of the time (though to be honest, we don't spend much time trying to snuggle her because of her *explosive* shedding and the way her hair makes our noses itch like hell, not to mention her obnoxious tendency to reflexively pee when placed on our bed). Nala loves a good cuddle, but only after she puts up a HUGE fight over getting caught and really makes you work for it. Norman is a die-hard snuggler; he can't get enough cuddles! He's always following me around and licking my ankles/feet. All of them tolerate being picked up reasonably well, but none of them actually *like* it (their preferred method of cuddling is lying in bed with one or both of us). We make it a point to pick them up regularly and instill the idea that they'd better suck it up and deal with it, because we're not going to go away . With all three, I can actually get them to chitter their teeth (bunny purr) while being held if I give copious amounts of nose rubs and they happen to be less not in the mood than usual.

Jay and I learned how to get Normie to accept being picked up together, since we got him together. Nala and Gaz (Nala especially) tested him quite a bit and wasn't at all accepting of his attempts to pick her up in the beginning, even though she was fine with me doing it... they came around soon enough, though, and now he can snag them as easily as I can.

~~~~~

Anyway, bottom line is that the vast majority of rabbits can be taught to tolerate being picked up. The most important tips I can offer you are these:

~ Be confident - if you don't trust your ability to safely and securely pick up your rabbits, they probably won't either.
~ Be firm - prey animals, by nature, don't like it when they're not in control and many of them especially don't like it if they don't feel well-supported/held snugly so that they won't fall. Also, those that aren't afraid of falling tend to be prone to trying to jump out of your arms, which could get them hurt. Always make sure their back feet in particular are both supported and controlled in one way or another - that's what poses the most danger to both themselves and to you.
~ Don't keep trying something that isn't working. Every bunny is different, so the tactics one bunny is comfortable with won't necessarily work for another.
Nala is perfectly content to be scooped up one-handed with her feet unsupported until she's a few feet off the ground (at which point her butt ends up tucked into my elbow, preventing her from trying to kick her back feed). This can work quite well with *some* rabbits, but others will freak out if you try that tactic.
Normie prefers to have his feet supported ASAP and wants to be picked up with both hands and pulled to my chest (something Nala is fine with as well) - he doesn't like the one-handed scoop, though he tolerates it.

~~~~~

As for destructive chewing, bunnies do NOT learn through negative reinforcement and do NOT have an innate desire to please their owners. They're stubborn, bull-headed wanton destroyers of your stuff - the only way to prevent them from chewing what they shouldn't is to block access ><

The BinkyBunny site has some great tips on bunny-proofing .

Jennifer

Can I fly you out here to work with bonding Lady and Brooke and working with picking them up? Since your tired of all that *hot* weather out there! HE HE HE...

Actually I'm going to try to send you another PM about working with Lady and Brooke and bonding. I swear aliens must be stealing my PM's to you!

Vanessa

I train all of mine to be picked up and held but, it isn't natural for them. I use treats to get them used to straddling my arm with all of their feet on the floor, then more treats to reward them for staying calm while I lift my arm and thus them, stabilizing them with a hand over their shoulders as I tuck them close to my body. It takes a few weeks of doing it daily but, all but two of mine learned to take to it and now happily straddle my arm and wait for the ride to being held, and carried around.

Remember to them, you are a predator. You have close set eyes, like a predator, you approach them head on, like a predator, you can move fast and grab them, like a predator, then you lift them off the ground, like a predator. It takes patience and a lot of short, calm tries to convince them you are a safe predator that isn't going to hurt them.