Flopsy (Lionhead) Not Pooping

[miss.suzyb]

Hello,
My rabbit has stopped pooping (I don't know for how long because I was away the last week and my bunny sitter didn't think to isolate him from the other 3 bunnies to check for these symptoms or see the need to take him to the vet or let me know until I returned.) He has also dropped weight. I can see he has been scratching a lot and lost some hair. Also there are new dark spots on his skin. I suspect he has got fleas. I'm taking him to the vet. Just wondered if others have had this experience and can offer advice. I will get flea treatment for all 4 bunnies and will need to thoroughly de-flea their roaming area. Can anyone recommend an effective bunny-safe pesticide to clean outdoors and indoors? Feeling very concerned. Sue

 

[JBun]

Fleas shouldn't cause a rabbit to stop eating/pooping unless it's severe enough it's causing anemia. Which if this has occurred, and with your rabbit not pooping and likely also not eating well for an unknown time period, this would be considered an emergency. A rabbit not eating well for 12-24 hrs is an emergency situation in most cases. I would strongly recommend getting your rabbit seen immediately today, as an emergency case if necessary, by a knowledgeable rabbit vet.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Veterinary_emergencies

https://rabbit.org/care/gi-stasis/

https://rabbit.org/health/how-to-find-a-rabbit-savvy-vet/

If the problem is fleas, your vet should be able to give you some rabbit safe cleaning recommendations. Mites could also be a possibility. Revolution (selamectin) is my preferred rabbit safe treatment and it will treat both parasites. These links also have some info on rabbit safe treatments and cleaning.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Fleas

www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Parasitic/fleas/Fleas.htm

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Mites

www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Parasitic/furmite/fur_mite.htm

www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Parasitic/Mange/Sarcoptes.htm

But it may not be fleas or mites, especially if your vet doesn't find evidence of either. I'm not seeing flea dirt in the pictures, to indicate fleas, unless you saw them crawling around in the fur. And no dandruff, scaly skin, or lesions to point to mites or fungal dermatitis.

If no evidence of fleas, mites, or fungal dermatitis is found, another possibility that could cause patchy fur loss that isn't from parasites, is overgrooming. This could happen from self barbering from a nutrient deficiency or because she's feeling pain or discomfort in that area internally and is trying to get to it and alleviate the discomfort somehow. Or it could also be overgrooming from one of the other rabbits. And this can happen for a variety of reasons, one being your rabbit not feeling well and laying down, and one of your other rabbits pestering him to get up. This could also account for the dark spots on the skin, from teeth bruising the skin as the other rabbit pulls or chews the fur. This is what looks more likely to me (overgrooming), based on the look of the fur and skin. But this is just a guess.

The most important thing is finding the cause of your rabbits lack of appetite. Hopefully it was just the stress of you being gone, and the vet can get your bun back to feeling better with some sub q fluids, meloxicam (pain med), a gut stimulant, and regular syringe feeds (if needed at this point). Though not eating for a prolonged period can result in a rabbit developing fatty liver disease. So your vet may need to investigate that as well, and do a blood test to check liver function.

 

[miss.suzyb]

Hello,
Thank you for responding so quickly to my concerns. We did take Flopsy to see a rabbit specialist vet and they identified he has a couple of things. A parasite called Cheyletiellosis. Prescribed revolution. The black spots are Flopsy's skin pigmentation. He has such thick white fur growing from these areas that I didn't notice it until now. The more concerning part is he needs dental work. She says he must have had a head trauma because a tooth is growing in the wrong direction and he has lost the top, right incisor tooth. He has not had any head trauma that I am aware of. He did chew on a cable that was not plugged in. The bottom right tooth that would normally grind on it has grown a bit longer. Causing discomfort and loss of appetite. The vet gave us critical care liquid food for support feeding 5 times a day, prokinetics to stimulate the gut movement and injection of fluid into the gut. Also pain relief medication Meloxicam (as you mentioned). We are very relieved Flopsy did a lot of poo last night and this morning. He is not scratching as much so the Revolution is already starting to work. She also gave us Hibitane skin cleanser to clean the skin area after three days which can help if there are any fungal issues. The vet told us to monitor him for 24 hours and continue with the food support for the next 5-7 days then to go back in a week. Then we will book him in for a dental procedure to grind the long tooth. She mentioned that we will need to arrange ongoing dental treatment every 3-6 months. This involves giving him an anesthetic to grind down the tooth. It concerns me that he will need anesthetic regularly and what kind of strain can that put on his body? Are there any natural remedies? We will continue to give him plenty of hay, dandelion roots, and apple sticks but he does not want to chew on these. I have attached Flopsy this morning, the parasite pic my vet sent and I did a quick check of my other bun buns teeth that are all normal. The last pic is Flopsy's teeth so you can see his are abnormal.

 

[JBun]

I'm glad to see he's pooping. One less thing to worry about. The Revolution should take care of the mites pretty quickly. It's usually a very effective treatment.

Yep, overgrown incisors definitely explains the reduced appetite. Once he's had his teeth trimmed, you could try timothy hay cubes, and larger (1/4 in. or bigger) fresh apple branch cuttings if available to you. Dried branches are too tough and he'd be less likely to chew them. Rabbits use their incisors to strip the bark, and to chew pieces off the hay blocks. So it's possible it may help a little bit to wear on those incisors. But because there isn't an opposing tooth right now, that tooth is likely to continue to overgrow, though possibly at a slower rate.

If you've had him a while and you know this isn't a problem he came with, the trauma that could have caused the broken tooth and malocclusion, may have been him running around and smashing his face into something while playing. Or getting startled and smashing into something. It certainly does happen. Rabbits have even broken their jaw in this way.

So if this is a new injury, then it's possible that with regular tooth trims over the next few months, the broken tooth could grow back in and the malocclusion correct itself, and you'll not need tooth trims done any longer. But for this possibility, you don't want to allow too much overgrowth with the teeth or this could impact them being able to correct and realign. I'd say 6-8 weeks between trims at the most. But that can vary with each rabbit, so you'll want to keep an eye on their growth each week following a trim, and check with the vet if you think they're getting too long.

But if it doesn't get better, the only other option to regular tooth trims, is incisor (and peg teeth) extraction. This is something I would only suggest if your vet is an extremely knowledgeable rabbit vet, with experience in dental extractions in rabbits.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Teeth

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Malocclusion

(LINK CONTAINS MEDICAL RELATED PHOTOS)
https://lbah.com/rabbit/rabbit-teeth-conditions/

 

[miss.suzyb]

Hello, just thought I would provide you with an update. I will pick Flopsy up from the vet in an hour. The vet just phoned and said the tooth trim went well but he is still sleeping, longer than expected.

This is a new injury. When he was little and spayed his dental was normal. I hope this can rectify itself with a few trims and using those blocks. I took the attached photo a couple of days ago. Interesting how fast the teeth architecture can change with malocclusion. I let him have some exercise on the terrace with our other bun buns and noticed Peter chasing him. It seems highly likely to collide with the wall when playing. I'm thinking of getting a soft barrier for the fence.

Many thanks for the links. I found them to be very informative and your insight.

I have also added a video I took of the bun buns on the terrace so you can see the fence is concrete. If anyone can recommend a way to cushion the fence. I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

Our little guy Stewart II had to have his trimmed every other month for his entire life--wish you better luck than we had.

 

[miss.suzyb]

Our little guy Stewart II had to have his trimmed every other month for his entire life--wish you better luck than we had.

Gosh sorry to hear bout that. How long did he live? It concerns me the impact of anesthetic on the heart and life span.

 

[miss.suzyb]

Flopsy has bounced back very well. He was testing out his new teeth architecture on the towel, hay blocks, and apple sticks. Relieved to have him returning to his old self.

The vet explained his molars are also moving and a few are wobbly including the top incisor. There is evidence of regrowth on the right incisor thank goodness. The vet was suggesting in the future we may need to consider extraction. Can rabbits survive without teeth?

 

[JBun]

Loose teeth may need to be pulled, though this isn't necessarily an extraction that would be to try and stop any future regrowth of the teeth. An actual extraction to stop maloccluded incisors from regrowing, is an option if the teeth alignment doesn't correct itself after a few trims. Incisor extraction is more common than molar extraction. Molar extraction is very rarely needed.

The benefits of incisor extraction are not having to subject the rabbit to repeated anesthesia, and not risking tooth overgrowth affecting appetite and risking weight loss and GI stasis. The downsides are that your rabbit may not be able to eat certain foods any longer like hard veggies and long stem hay, and may end up only being able to handle everything cut up into small pieces, and possibly not hard pellets either and needing a pellet mush. It depends on the rabbit, for how they adapt to the loss of the incisors.

Then there's the risks of a major dental procedure, and the possibility that the teeth could still regrow afterwards and you would need to try again or just be out the cost for an unsuccessful procedure. There's also a risk of possible infection and abscess.

So all things to take into consideration. If you go to the malocclusion link I posted, there are some links for personal stories of having an extraction done, and other references on incisor extraction.

For some possible solutions for the concrete wall, maybe something like EVA foam tiles. They won't absorb moisture and will provide some cushioning. But you would need to find a way to stand or glue them up, and I don't know how they'll hold up to any direct sun exposure. Plus they aren't chew resistant if any of your rabbits are big chewers, which could also possibly pose a gut blockage risk if ingested in large amounts.

Another option that could possibly work, are the plastic sheet pet playpens (the soft plastic sheet with wire frame, not the hard polycarbonate). They're semi chew resistant and won't be affected much by water, though not sure about sun. If it was set up a few inches from the wall, if a rabbit ran into it, it would provide a softer impact and the airspace between it and the wall, prevents a direct hard wall contact.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

Gosh sorry to hear bout that. How long did he live? It concerns me the impact of anesthetic on the heart and life span.

Stewart II lived with us for around 6 years.

 

[miss.suzyb]

Loose teeth may need to be pulled, though this isn't necessarily an extraction that would be to try and stop any future regrowth of the teeth. An actual extraction to stop maloccluded incisors from regrowing, is an option if the teeth alignment doesn't correct itself after a few trims. Incisor extraction is more common than molar extraction. Molar extraction is very rarely needed.

The benefits of incisor extraction are not having to subject the rabbit to repeated anesthesia, and not risking tooth overgrowth affecting appetite and risking weight loss and GI stasis. The downsides are that your rabbit may not be able to eat certain foods any longer like hard veggies and long stem hay, and may end up only being able to handle everything cut up into small pieces, and possibly not hard pellets either and needing a pellet mush. It depends on the rabbit, for how they adapt to the loss of the incisors.

Then there's the risks of a major dental procedure, and the possibility that the teeth could still regrow afterwards and you would need to try again or just be out the cost for an unsuccessful procedure. There's also a risk of possible infection and abscess.

So all things to take into consideration. If you go to the malocclusion link I posted, there are some links for personal stories of having an extraction done, and other references on incisor extraction.

For some possible solutions for the concrete wall, maybe something like EVA foam tiles. They won't absorb moisture and will provide some cushioning. But you would need to find a way to stand or glue them up, and I don't know how they'll hold up to any direct sun exposure. Plus they aren't chew resistant if any of your rabbits are big chewers, which could also possibly pose a gut blockage risk if ingested in large amounts.

Another option that could possibly work, are the plastic sheet pet playpens (the soft plastic sheet with wire frame, not the hard polycarbonate). They're semi chew resistant and won't be affected much by water, though not sure about sun. If it was set up a few inches from the wall, if a rabbit ran into it, it would provide a softer impact and the airspace between it and the wall, prevents a direct hard wall contact.

View attachment 65907

 

[miss.suzyb]

Thank you for the links, very insightful and raised more concerns to look out for. It's just over a month since the first trim and he has continued to eat and poop ok. He occasionally chews on the fence and apple sticks. Those hay blocks you suggested are working well. This week I noticed his ability to eat larger cabbage leaves has reduced. Now cutting vegies and leaves up smaller and have got smaller pellets and jelly snacks specifically for bunnies, which he loves.

When the vet walked me through the endoscope video footage she identified 2 molars on each side that are wobbly and identified two other molars that have rotated. After reading about those cases where the molars cut the bunny's tongue and the side of their mouth, it left me feeling very concerned. It seems every tooth in Flopsy's mouth has been impacted by this trauma or perhaps it's a domino effect. The vet expressed it's highly likely that she will need to extract his teeth. She also outlined the risks of extraction being a catchment for food to collect and rot and has had cases with abscesses after extraction. After reading the links you provided which lead to other informative websites, it seems to be a case-by-case situation.

The vet prescribed pain meds for a week after the last trim. I'm wondering if I should ask for more. Flopsy's disposition is very calm. He hasn't displayed any symptoms of experiencing pain like shaking or vocalising. Are there particular postures rabbits prefer if experiencing dental pain?

 

[JBun]

There are several possible symptoms. Which ones might occur, will depend on the type of dental issue. Typical signs of dental pain, discomfort, and that there may be a dental problem :

- selective eating (will favor foods that are least painful to chew)
- drooling, consistent wetness around the mouth or under the chin, particularly during and right after eating
- excessive lip licking
- odd chewing motion, may raise the head up or to the side in an effort to find a way to chew that doesn't hurt
- dropping food from the mouth
- seeming excited to eat, but then not eating much or at all due to chewing causing mouth pain
- excessive thirst and urination
- not eating cecotropes
- fecal balls getting smaller due to reduced appetite
- rough unkept coat
- sneezing, runny nose, eye discharge (when dental related, due to overgrown tooth roots)
- lump along the jawline (dental abscess)
- bulging eyes (upper tooth abscess)
- after excessive time without sufficient food intake, will start to cause lethargy, anorexia, and GI stasis setting in
- any unusual behavior that is abnormal for your rabbit, can be a sign there's some sort of problem

I can't see front facial incisor trauma causing molars to become loose. That would usually be a more common issue in older rabbits, if there's an underlying infection, or from a diet with insufficient calcium. I couldn't see if you mentioned his age? What's his diet usually like (type of pellets, hay, veg, treats)? I'm trying to figure out if there's some other reason these dental problems are happening.

 

[miss.suzyb]

He is definitely displaying a few of the signs on your list.
- selective eating (will favor foods that are least painful to chew)
- odd chewing motion, may raise the head up or to the side in an effort to find a way to chew that doesn't hurt
- seeming excited to eat, but then not eating much or at all due to chewing causing mouth pain
Flopsy is 4.5 years old.
Diet - fresh greens, cabbage, basil, parsley, mint, cauliflower, broccoli, cellery, hay various cuts. Treats include apple sticks, dandelion roots, fruit water melon, commercially made snacks as pictured and small size pellets also pictured below.
Timothy hay cubes, jellies and a grinding cube for rabbits. When I can get it silver beet.
I have attached a video taken earlier today that shows Flopsy’s style of eating. You will see he was interested in the cellery slice but didn’t pursue it. He then took small bites of pellets and spent a long time chewing. I have also included a photo of his incisors that was take today. The bottom incisors looks straighter than before. There are two incisors at the top. Not aligning unfortunately. Looking at that overgrowth I’m going to book him in for trim.

 

[Blue eyes]

A couple notes on the diet...

Cabbage, cauliflower, and broccoli all have the potential to cause gas issues. Bear that in mind whenever those are fed and keep an eye out for that possibility. Those may need to be limited.

Greens are more what we're after when it comes to fresh foods. The basil, mint and fresh greens are absolutely ideal.

Celery should be sliced so there aren't any long strings still attached.

Treats should be severely limited. For example, the general guideline is 1-2 tbsp of fresh treat per rabbit per day. That's about 1 fresh strawberry, or 3-4 slices of freeze-dried strawberries. So once a rabbit gets 1 strawberry, then he shouldn't get any other treats the rest of the day.

Don't know what those jellies are?? Do you have more info on them?

 

[JBun]

Yeah, those behaviors are pretty typical for rabbits experiencing dental issues. One thing to try with the pellets, is you could try soaking them in warm water, to help soften them up for him. Some rabbits don't like this and won't eat the pellet mush on their own, so you'll need to monitor it to see if he does like the moistened pellets. If he does like the pellet mush better than hard pellets, it does need to be made up fresh each meal and any leftover shouldn't be left out for more than a few hours. You just don't want mold growth to occur, as that can make a rabbit very sick if they eat moldy food.

I asked about his diet, primarily to make sure he was getting the necessary vitamins and calcium to support tooth growth, and that nutrient deficiency wasn't the cause of the loose molars. So feeding a good quality pellet does help mostly rule that possibility out. And he's not really that old, so age related isn't likely.

Who knows, maybe it really was the facial trauma that loosened the molars. But hopefully they're just fractured and will grow back in normally. Though the vet will need to continue to monitor the molars, and may need to pull the loose ones and grind down the opposing ones if they become too long. Hopefully as a temporary thing until the broken teeth grow back in. Because pulling teeth does leave an opening in the gum, if your vet has to do this, your bun may need to be put on a rabbit safe antibiotic like enrofloxacin, to stop possible bacterial growth if debris gets in that tooth opening.

As Blue Eyes mentioned, feeding sugary foods is best limited to a small amount each day. Not only because excess sugars may cause digestive issues, but also the sugars could promote tooth decay, which your bun may be especially prone to right now with those loose teeth. So just be cautious with not giving too much would be my recommendation as well.