rabbit keeping

Ok I didn't know what to title this because the questions are pretty different.

I am getting a holland Lop soon, the breeder says he is on the larger side and will be 4 lbs, The enclosure I am planning on is 6x4 including a XL dog crate that will be their main home ( though once they are mostly litter trained the cage will always be open)

Is this enough room for a second small ( 2.5-4 lb) bunny?
They will get out of enclosure time as well.
I am in no rush to get a second rabbit but i do know its something we may want to do and want to be prepared for that possibility.

Also I was planning on using liners for inside the cage, Is there any reason I should or should not do this?

another though was using a fleece liner in the litter box since I have read they like to pee on soft things.

The space should be plenty of room for two rabbits if they're also getting time to run around outside of it. Be aware that not all rabbits get along, I don't know what reading you've done on bonding, but you'll need to keep them separated for a while and introduce them slowly in neutral territory.

As for the liners, that really depends. What sort of liners? It's mostly only an issue if the bunny chews them. If you're trying to litter train, having a soft absorbent liner through the whole cage can just confuse the issue. Better off having a normal surface, then absorbent litter in the box. If you're looking to protect carpet or other flooring, you could use something like cut to measure vinyl flooring, or even a plastic sheet pulled taught under the pen so it can't be chewed.

That pretty much goes for bonding any animal really You can't just throw them in together and expect good results. its also very important I keep mine separated until after the second is neutered and healed.

The liners I was making are towel over fleece ( The towel is only for absorbency and will be fully covered by fleece)

I was already thinking of vinyl flooring over the carpet and possibly cut to size inside the cage. It will be easier to wipe down than the tray that comes with it.

I have been reading that buns like to sleep on hard surfaces and pee on soft ones, So I was thinking I could just make the liners the right size to fit the litter box ( which is also where the hay will be) so that would attract them to pee there and I could just change it out daily. I prefer to avoid disposable bedding. ( when I have to I use paper cat litter with no scent or additives)

The type of fleece liner you describe may absorb urine, but it won't absorb the odor. Bunnies pee a lot and the liner will likely get soaked quickly leaving piles of poo on top of the liner that bunny will step on. The advantage of disposable bedding is its ability to absorb the odor and also the poos will somewhat mix in to the loose bedding.

Pelleted paper litter is fine - just a bit more costly. Many on RO use wood pellets for their economy. A 40lb bag costs just $5 and will last my two rabbits (around 6 lbs each) roughly 2 months.

i plan to change the liners daily, if its just in the litter box thats easy.

I do know fleece wont absorb odor, I used it for years for other animals, I am use to cleaning it.

I did worry about poo ... But I am sure I can find some solution.

I already plan to clean the floors regularly as well... 2x a week minimum. No chemicals.

well what I am thinking of right now is put fleece in the litter pan, line the cage with vinyl flooring ( for easy cleaning) Also have the hay in the litter pan and that should contain at least some of the mess.

Too many people get rabbits without first doing sufficient research. That is certainly not the case with you!

But perhaps you are over-thinking everything.... trying to re-invent the wheel, if you will.

Most likely you will be modifying whatever your current plans may be as you gain experience. I have used fleece with rats and with guinea pigs, but I wouldn't consider using it in a litter box for my rabbits knowing how much they urinate daily. I have found the wood pellets to be the easiest (least amount of work) and most odor absorbing.

The solid floor of my rabbit's cage only needs to be swept whenever I clean out the litter box (about twice per week). It's not often I do a wet wipe down.

I have to keep the cage and pen as odor free as possible which is why my plans may seem a bit extreme.

The fleece is not actually meant for absorbency, its meant to make them want to go there, since rabbits tend to pee on soft things from everything I am reading. I can also use hand towels under the fleece to absorb the urine.

I really want to avoid disposable bedding if at all possible.

also while I save for vinyl flooring I am getting vinyl table clothes (the cloth backed ones) I don't think these will last long, but they will protect the carpet from urine.

I do know plans change as people get more experienced, but I am trying to do the best I can from the beginning. I even think I found a way to make more space if we decide to get another ... or even if we just keep him alone actually.

My thought on the vinyl table cloths would be when they urinate it will run off the table cloth onto the carpet. My buns only urinate in their litter boxes now. It took a little work but you cannot have anything soft in their pen till they get it figured out.

I now use fleece at the bottom of my cage to protect from them chewing the carpet and have no problems. I would recommend a hard bottom with some type of edge to keep anything from running to the carpet.

I also want to add I use recycled paper pellets for litter. They are very absorbent and keep the odor down. We only change the litter boxes out once or twice a week. I am thinking about switching to the wood pellets as others have suggested. But the fleece and towels seems like too much work and mess to me as the poops will become mushy in my opinion.

Rabbits pee on the wood pellets just fine. My French lop who was 7.5 months old peed 99% in the his litter except for once. I had a shelf in his cage covered in outdoor carpeting. He peed on it once and it made the whole house smell terribly (at the time he wasn't neutered). I'm afraid your fleece idea may backfire as far as being odor free but if you'd like to try it let us know how it goes.

A disposable litter is probably going to be your best bet as with any animal. Any animal is not going to be completely odor free unless it's a dog that is totally housetrained outside.

Also I had a dog crate as a part of my cage and the tray was actually very helpful. If there was a spillage of hay or food I just took it outside and threw everything in the dirt. Then sprayed and wiped it down. The only thing sitting on it was his XL cat box

Another suggestion that I am putting into trial at the moment is puppy pad under the litter and hay to absorb the majority of the urine. I can't say how much success it is yet as I just started it on Sunday in one of his XL cat boxes and did not place it in the second to see if it works out well. I can update on how this works out. I would not suggest it if your bun is a digger though!

I guess odor free was the wrong choice,we just don't want a strong smell. My gecko and turtles are pretty much odor free,

This crate is metal and will be lined with vinyl it should be super easy.

I would love to hear how that works out in case I am forced to use something under his fleece ( which will most likely happen)

A heavy duty plastic tarp would be more durable than a vinyl tablecloth. The tablecloth will likely get torn just from bunny's nails walking on it, rendering it useless as protection to what's underneath. The plastic top portion of those tablecloths is very thin.

You are correct that bunnies tend to like soft surfaces on which to potty, but it would probably be more accurate to say that they do NOT like peeing on hard surfaces. That is why it is easy to get bunnies to potty in a box with loose litter if the rest of the cage is solid flooring.

i may not need to buy vinyl flooring, The woman I work for said she has some left over from doing her bathrooms. So hopefully its enough for the liners I need

Don't worry I am not completely against litter, I will switch if it proves to be needed

I use both litter and fleece for my rabbits. I put pelleted wood litter and hay in their poop boxes and towels, fleece, and rugs (one on top of the other, in that order) in their bed boxes. They mostly pee where the hay is, but they like to leave a few marks in the bed, as well. I would say that if you only gave them the option to pee on fleece in a litter box, they'd go for it, especially if you put hay in it. Although, that might be difficult to clean. It'll just come down to whatever works best for you and your bunny, in the end.