pasteurella advice: Going in circles with vets

:bunnynurse:

After bun-bun passed, we filled our hearts with a new bun. Last month, he had a runny nose with crust around it. I didn't want to take any chances so I took him to the vet, two days before Christmas. They said it could be "the snuffles" and gave him a oral antibiotic. Some days he looked better, other days it would crust again. Two weeks later, he has been put on two antibiotics. He stools aren't runny, acts normal, happy, eats good but the runny nose is there. Doesn't sneeze. We changed his litter, hay, to rule out allergies too.

After two visits from the other vet- I went to one that was on a rabbit society website link. She gave him a shot and then said to keep him on the baytril to finish it out. I got a estimate from them and if he didn't get better, they said they wanted to sedate him for two xrays? Now, that was weird to me- I have heard putting bunnies under is not good, correct me if I wrong? This guy is 6 months old, 2 pounds. I just feel frustrated and going in circles. The estimate they gave me was $758.

Any advice for me? I'd appreciate it. I just want him better, we love him. Thanks. :dutch:

They probably want dental radiographs because tooth problems can cause runny nose and your bunny has to hold perfectly still and how do you position a rabbit head without holding it with a x ray plate in it's mouth? You don't. You anesthetize it if it's a rabbit vet they will know which drugs to use.

That makes sense! I'm just nervous I guess.

700 sounds a bit expensive however. Odd
But if youre putting him under for that, you might as well neuter him at the same time if hes not all ready done.
Was a culture ever done to determine if there was any and what type of bacteria was present? Baytril is a pretty common bandaid type antibiotic. So overused for everything it really does nothing for most of what vets prescribe it for. Its just bunny safe and super common.

AE250 Rabbit Respiratory panel $358
Digital X-ray, TWO panels $145
O2 $44.40 (oxygen)
Pasteurella Profile $170.85
Buprenex $13.50
Midazolam injectable $13.50

This is the estimate, he was given the injectable today. Do they sell Pasteurella testing kits online?

Watermelons said:

700 sounds a bit expensive however. Odd
But if youre putting him under for that, you might as well neuter him at the same time if hes not all ready done.
Was a culture ever done to determine if there was any and what type of bacteria was present? Baytril is a pretty common bandaid type antibiotic. So overused for everything it really does nothing for most of what vets prescribe it for. Its just bunny safe and super common.

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No culture was done. The vet we saw today said "you could test all rabbits who come in here and they'd test positive for the snuffles" ???

Sounds like more of a fancy name scam then anything.
That's some mighty expensive oxygen
The snuffles is a generic name for a cold or URI (resp infection) Same as calling a human cold where as deep beyond our cold it could be a sinus infection, pneumonia, or just a boring old (and ****ty) virus you cant do anything for. This is why its important to do a bacteria culture. Swab the snot! It very well could be pasturella which never really goes away but you can knock it back (from what I've heard) and Baytril is a pretty wussy drug to be giving for that. Typically rabbits are giving penicillin type drugs like bicillin
Read this
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Respiratory/Bacterial/URI.htm
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/showthread.php?t=10455
Some links I stole from jennys posts. Hopefully she will appear and answer this all for you.
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/culture.html
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/sneezing.html

I agree, snuffles is a generic term and without a culture they're just guessing at the best antibiotic. Our vet has taken a number of x-rays of our rabbits, both head and body, and none have been sedated. Unless your bunny is hard to handle, I don't see the need for it...if they know how to handle a rabbit. You didn't say, but is the snot clear or not?

majorv said:

I agree, snuffles is a generic term and without a culture they're just guessing at the best antibiotic. Our vet has taken a number of x-rays of our rabbits, both head and body, and none have been sedated. Unless your bunny is hard to handle, I don't see the need for it...if they know how to handle a rabbit. You didn't say, but is the snot clear or not?

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Yes, it's clear. I just feel at a loss. I feel like two weeks and $200 later, nothing came out of anything besides lots of antibiotics.

Not hard to handle at all. The place we went to was listed in the link one of you provided by the Rabbit House Society. I just don't know where to go what to do at this point...

If it's clear - not white - then I don't think it's an infection. You may want to look further at his environment or at least get head x-rays, but if your rabbit is pretty easy going then I think the sedation is unnecessary, JMO.

You can't take an x-ray of a rabbit that's awake (of it's mouth) because you need to have the film in it's mouth and your hand out of the view. In canada it is legal for me to be in the room taking the radiograph (at least in ontario) so I could hold your rabbit down forcibly and hope it doesn't start trying to kick and struggle and snap the picture (of body parts not its mouth because I can't have it chew film). Normally I just plop the rabbit on the film and snap the picture without holding it, but if I needed a pic of a certain body part and had to hold the rabbit, well that's not very good for the rabbit, it's much better if it's anesthetized and holding still. Much less stress.
Many states in the US have made it ILLEGAL for the tech to be in the room while the rad is being taken, so I guess the pet must be sedated or it might jump off the table..yikes!

Also your vet has much less expense prices than mine!!! I think those prices look great Lol

Bucktooth not all head xrays need to have the film in the animals mouth.

If you want good dental x rays of specific teeth than yes it does unfortunately. I get to take digital ones and old school ones. I can plop your rabbit on the table and take a full body rad with the bun standing but that's not ideal. Please explain to me now to position a bunny with no sedation for dental x ray. I'm not being rude I'm being serious. If you have a good technique to share I will use it next time

Being a tech at various clinics over 8 years only one of them has had specifically a dental x ray machine and it was a dog/cat practice. The clinics that have taken Radiographs of our rabbits have just had normal digital machines. Laying the animal on the table and snapping the X-ray to the tray underneath the table. Sedation does not always need to be done on rabbits in this setting. It sounds like to start with a general head X-ray needs to be done and I'm sure if they have any questions they might refer out to a clinic that has a
Dental X-ray but not all clinics here have them. Also in the US I have been exposed to a good amount of X-rays. Here we utilize lead jackets and thyroid guards so we are able to restrain animals.

Now this all depends on the equipment available to the clinic but I'd say this is pretty standard from what I've experienced and seen in the US. I do agree though with official dental X-rays the animal would need sedation and definitely if a technician was not allowed to restrain or be in the room.

As far as the rabbit I agree that if the snot isn't a color then there may not be an infection but continual drainage is not normal either. If it were me and I was able id get a second opinion done and a head radiograph as well

sorry I missed that you went to two vets. I would just okay the X-rays for now and if sedation is a must then make sure they take all the precautions and I would not drop him off for the procedure unless they are super slammed and won't be able to do it quickly. If you have to sedate and drop off wait by your phone and be available in case anything goes wrong.

Bucktooth you are not the only member of this forum with veterinary experience.
The majoroty of rabbit facial xrays are done with the rabbit in the lateral position. You are coming accross a bit condescending as well for somebody trying to make themselves come accross as a professional.
The op did not specify what type of rads this vet was trying to take of their rabbit either.
Now lets move on from the topic of xrays.
It still sounds as if something is off. Other tests like a culture that should be done were not suggested and etc.
As long as the op's bunny continues to eat and drink as normal then were probably pretty good.

Well the good news is- his nose looks better since the shot and the baytril combo. I switched him to Carefresh and he seems to love it (wiggling his body in it).

I am hoping he stays this way. I would prefer not to sedate him if that has to happen at all, please no worries on giving me advice. 1. I appreciate it all 2. Life's too short to argue :bunnyheart

If the discharge comes back and/or is anything but clear...you may have to re-think things. But I'm glad he's better!

I'm glad he seems to be doing better

bunbunsbinkies said:

Well the good news is- his nose looks better since the shot and the baytril combo. I switched him to Carefresh and he seems to love it (wiggling his body in it).

I am hoping he stays this way. I would prefer not to sedate him if that has to happen at all, please no worries on giving me advice. 1. I appreciate it all 2. Life's too short to argue :bunnyheart

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We had a bun that didn't respond to the baytril alone, so they gave him a shot with it, and it fixed the problem. But another of our buns had the same thing and it didn't fix it for him - he had the same symptoms, but his have turned into something chronic.

I would highly recommend that you check his environment and consider anything that could be causing problems, so that you don't have it repeat. We cleaned the cages really well, replaced litter boxes, and found that the pellets were leaving a lot of dust, so we eliminated that as much as possible. We also shake out our timothy hay if it's dusty. We also replaced bowls, water bottles, etc. It has all helped. Also any dust from the house can cause the runny nose too. Hopefully you won't have any issues after this course of antibiotics though!