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Old 11-29-2011, 05:04 AM   #1
elmerfudd
 
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Hi:My bunny (Einee) has a middle ear infection (head tilt) and has been improving in leaps and bounds over the past week - soon to resume a normal life I hope. She is 20 months old and was spayed last year. I had been treating her with a oral suspension but the new vet does not have baytril in an oral suspension. I just discovered that I'mextremely uncomfortable with giving Eineeinjections ofbaytril,which is what he provided me with. Is there a way I can turn the injected formula into an oral suspension for her? The once a day injected dosage is .75 ML "subcutaneous". If that's not possible, I sure would appreciate reinforcement on the injection process. The vet showed me and explained how to scruff her neck and insert the needle into the skin while holding it with your thumb, but when I attempted this the baytril dribbled down onto her fur...where she licked it off to clean herself up! I'm sure I'll pass out trying to do this for fear of hurting her. I don't mind receiving a needle personally but apparently I have a problem giving one. Thanks for any help you can offer.



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Old 11-29-2011, 01:42 PM   #2
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First off, I really don't think baytril is up to the task. I have yet to hear of it totally solving head tilt. Maybe that's just me though. Definitly didn't solve it for my bunny Jelly. We lost her to a case of head tilt after months of Baytril and one other med.

Personally if she's on an injection, I'd find a way to stick with that. When my buns have been on Baytril I always wished I didn't have to give it in the oral suspention. My rabbits *HATED* it more than Anything. What was always a sweet little black bunny called Charlie turned into a scary little black monster trying to kill me when I gave it. She hated the flavor or something I guess. lol

As far as making the injectible formula and oral suspention, I'm not sure if or how that can be done. Hopefully someone else knows more about that then me. Sorry!



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Old 11-29-2011, 04:46 PM   #3
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If not Baytril, then what to use??? In the meantime, still hoping someone out there can follow up on my queries regarding switching it to oral suspension or reinforcement on giving injections. Einee does not like the oral suspension and I do know that injections are easier on her, but of no use if I cannot give the injections successfully. Still searching...

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Old 11-30-2011, 03:57 AM   #4
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I'm treating my bunny now for head tilt. When it first happened I was scared to death. I still worry but she's very much improved. The thing is with head tilt it seems it is obviously hard to diagnose exactly what the issue is that is causing it and there are lots of differing opinions on what to do so you can ask for advice but in the end you have to go with your 'gut'.

My bunny is on Baytril and I am prepared to go with a stronger antibiotic if she shows any sign of not improving whatsoever. My vet is willing to work with me on this. She's on Baytril for 4 weeks total and she's on panacur which I also insisted that she be on for 30 days. Every day we see more improvement and I'm satisfied at present with her progress. Just tonight my Emmy with the head tilt was playing a game of chase across the bedroom floor with my daughter. I also give her a probiotic every day and I purchased Oxbow hay and pellets as I am hoping that better quality food will help her heal. She gets plenty of greens too.

I have been fortunate that my bunny will eat her greens with the Baytril, which has been turned into a watery paste, on them. I crush the 1/2 pill, add a tiny bit of water and smear it on Kale which she enjoys. I then add other greens to 'mask' the scent and flavor. I add Panacur to her greens too and so far she's eaten all her greens every time. This is far less stressful too than shoving it in their mouths. As for shots, I would be the same as you. I think you should tell your vet that you're just not up for the task. If you can't make yourself do it successfully you are putting your bunny at risk because you're not getting the medicine into her. And please, please be sure your bunny is eating and drinking. I watered down greens for a bit too so Emmy got more liquids in her but now she drinks like normal. I also cuddle her lots because she likes being held and petted and it reinforces her trust in me. I held her in the middle of the night during her worst times with head tilt and now she is my loyal friend for life!

I also read that someone put rolled up towels in their bunny hutch to help with bunnies that lose their balance. For a time, Emmy had just rolled towels in her home, a water bottle and hay. I removed everything that she could possibly get hurt on. I put Carefresh in the corner she normally went pee in and covered it with the day old hay and put fresh hay next to it. She used that as her litter box while eating her fresh hay. Now she's using a litter box again!

Anyway, that's just my experience and it's very limited. I'm no expert at all but wanted to share since I am going through this now. And if you have other animals in the household that could possibly pick up what your bunny has please wash your hands every time you touch your bunny so you don't infect someone else. I have a guinea pig that has head tilt now and while it seems unlikely, it just has to be from somehow passing it from the bunny to the pig even though they live in different rooms.

I hope your bunny gets better and you find all the information you need here plus support for going through what can be pretty scary. I wish you and your bun the best.

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Old 11-30-2011, 04:13 AM   #5
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It is really not the best option to give a rabbit subqutaneous injections of baytril due to the caustic nature of this drug. She could very well develop what is known as sterile abscesses from subqutaneous injection.

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm

I have never had a vet instruct me on any other type of injection other than intramuscular. I have given intramuscular injections of this drug ....but this would involve different instructions and a shorter needle and actually is more difficult to do if you have not done it before.

You need to find a compounding pharmacy . We have a vet here who actually uses a separate pharmacy to make flavored oral meds for pets.

You could call all the small pharmacies in your area asking if they would compound flavored meds for a pet ..or at least have a pharmacist directyou to one.

yes you could technically take injectable baytril, mix it with a flavoring and give it orally but your rabbit would most likely reject it . Baytril has a particularly foul odor and taste and if you want to give it orally then best to have a pharmacist prepare it.

And as stated above it is not the most effective drug for an inner ear infection but if she is responding then that is postive.


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Old 11-30-2011, 05:04 AM   #6
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Good Evening and thank you all so much for your input. My husband gave the injection tonight while I held her and it went very well. Helps that Einee is not HIS rabbit. Einee has responded very well to the baytril over the last week that she has been treated (starting with oral suspension and then switching to the injections). She went from 90 degree head tilt, eyes wide androlling, paralysis in back right leg and body rolling back to "almost binky". She has been drinking and eating very well for several days now, including hay, straw, pellets, some greens, vit. C pill and papaya pill.My concern right now is that she has the runs,but then she has normal poops as well, so I think this is probably the oral baytril, so hoping thiswill clear up within the next day or so now that the injections can be done.She has been well enough tovisit the love of her life for an hour a day for the last three days and get out into the pasture for exercise and fresh air at that time as well. This gives me a chance toobserve her mobility and balance, and I'm happy to say that each dayshe is improving. Billy (her partner) is totally in love with her and these visits are a celebrationfor him. It's also good for her of course because he dotes on her and grooms her lovingly. She grooms herself as best she can but still has a little trouble with balance when she reaches too far behind, BUT she can now avoid tumbling. Right now she's in her hospital "bed" in the office, back legs stretched out behind, eyes relaxed, head up, smitten cat sleeping above her on a cushion (hasn't left her side since she's been in the office). She still has a bit of a wobble and tires easily, but she can hop about with pretty good control now, and wants to be a rabbit again.Once her strength is back I will try returning her to Billy, under close supervision. I will keep the baytril advice (crushing tablets) on hand, and will also check the local pharmacies regarding compounding an oral suspension. Many thanks from Einee and myself...and Billy. We are all hopeful that she'll continue to improve and get back to serious binky business ASAP!

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Old 02-23-2012, 04:46 AM   #7
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After all this time Einee is still being treated for her head tilt disease. We went from baytril (after her condition worsened) to azithromycin. After about 10 days I took her off the asithromycin as she was getting even worse...back to lying on her side with her head to the side and trying to move by dragging along on her side. Awful! Took her back to the vet with a cry for help and the printout from your website and she has been on Chlor Palm (twice a day) AND Panacur once a day. She was doing very well for almost 3 weeks and then suddenly came down with the runs, which made her very weak. For the past week I've continue with bothmedications and her condition seems to go up and down, but with the runs to add to her misery. I don't see the eye flicker anymore, she's very alert and has a good appetite for everything, drinks her water, tries to groom etc. Her head still bobbles, but I don't think the vertigo is almost gone. Her back leg doesn't work that well yet, and she has an involuntary stretching motion with one front paw and that movement also includesher neck. She had a little bath tonight and we got the pooh butt cleaned up for the day, and she really came to life after that. If you can believe it, her motor control and balance was better after the bath and she hopped around quite well on the bath blanket after drying??? Odd.

My questions - and I'm asking the EXPERTS what to do here. Please, if you have no experience or the educationpertaining tothe above description I politely ask that you NOT respond as I'm very tired after 6 months of trying to save her. My questions are:

is it time to take her off the Chlor Palm and Panacur? My vet is sort of following my lead to a certain extent and trying to help, but rabbits are not his comfort zone.

Does it sound like her disease has been beaten, and that the drugs are harming her now? It's been 27 days on the Panacur and 26 on the Chlor Palm.

Or should I be continuing with the drugs, or dropping the panacur (which might be causing the runs), or seeking another treatment (and what would that be)

It been a long run and buns and I are both very tired.

Thanks to whoever can sort this out for me.



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