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Old 05-20-2017, 02:52 AM   #1
LilGnt
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Default Separate or not?

Hi, this is my first post here

I have 2 rabbits, a boy(Smokey) and a girl(Snowball) and both 2-3 months old but girl is bigger than boy, they have 1 cage but can insert divider just in case, my mom wants them to have babies first before getting neutered and spayed. I think they are still to young to mate and for operation.

So, my question is, should I separate them at normal times and let them together when they're ready for mating?


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Old 05-20-2017, 03:43 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilGnt View Post
Hi, this is my first post here

I have 2 rabbits, a boy(Smokey) and a girl(Snowball) and both 2-3 months old but girl is bigger than boy, they have 1 cage but can insert divider just in case, my mom wants them to have babies first before getting neutered and spayed. I think they are still to young to mate and for operation.

So, my question is, should I separate them at normal times and let them together when they're ready for mating?
I wouldn't mate them, it can raise the chances of the female developing cancer. Getting them neutered and spayed ASAP is your best bet. Also, unless you are raising them for show, snake food, or meat, theirs really no point. Especially don't breed them if they are related.


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Old 05-20-2017, 12:08 PM   #3
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Well, I would seperate them when the doe is 10 weeks (unless the buck starts humping her before that), then wait til she is at least 5-7 months (depending what size they are), breed them, wait until you are sure she's pregnant (can sometimes take the full month, but chances are extremly high when she cooperates and you keep them together for 3 days - if they get along), neuter the buck right away, reintroduce the buck 6 weeks after neutering (can be fertile that long), get rid of the kits with 8-10 weeks (or you'll have to seperate males from females again, and even after 5 years of breeding I still always get a second opinion when sexing the kits).

Anyway, do you already know what to do with the offspring? Be sure of that before breeding. (Just putting them on Craiglist isn't much of a plan). I sell what I can, the rest gets invited to dinner.

You know that breeding isn't always that nice, smooth experience, most time it is (depending on the breed, the line, the rabbits), but you can also end up with a heap of dead rabbits, or anything in between. It would be good to keep contact to the breeder where you have them from to have help if something happens, or for sexing the kits.
I wouldn't breed any rabbits that have genetical issues like pinched hips, teeth problems, fragile health, allergies, etc., that's just adding to the overall problem, many people are poorly prepared for vet bills.

Personally, I also wouldn't breed dwarfs or other breeds with semilethal genes where I can expect that 25% will wither and die, but that's just my preference.

Another point is space - they have one cage, do they still have enough room when you divide it and there are 5-10 more rabbits in there? I hope that's not one of those pet shop cages they sell here for rabbits (more suitable for hamsters or maybe guinea pigs). When I started I made hutches like my grandparents used for their meat rabbits, after a few days it was clear that was cruel and tore them down.

There are good reasons why pet rabbits are neutered, that hormonal behaviour often somewhat collides with what people expect of a pet. Some maturing bucks can be quite messy, spraying 2,3 feet wide and high.
Unspayed does have their issues too, what bothers me most are their mood swings when going through false pregnancys, but all that depends on the characters of the individual rabbits.
But have the buck spayed asap, I still get an oops litter now and then, and with the most recent one I simply can't figure out how they did it. Smarter than me, those critters.

Does your mom have experience with rabbits? That sure would help, and some points I mentioned would be moot. You have still a few months to plan a ahead, in the end, it's solely your decision how you proceed.

After having said all that: It sure is fun to have a litter of baby rabbits, they are so much fun and when handled a lot from the beginning can make very sweet pets. Just always be aware that you can't keep them all. Good luck


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I wouldn't mate them, it can raise the chances of the female developing cancer.
Oh, another version. That's not true, or can you link the study showing that? It's contrary to what I see every day. This whole cancer thing gets blown out of proportion and is used as generic argument for everything. Just because numbers keep being repeated over and and over because they fit some peoples agenda doesn't make them any more true.

But true, rabbits do have a higher risk for uterine cancer, I guess about 2-3 times the rate of humans (now, that rate more than doubled in the last 60-70 years), so in my opinion 20-30% will get some growths in their lives, but not necessarily dying of that. That "after 5 years 80% will die" is imho made up nonsense to propagate spaying.
I don't say that spaying is not a good idea for pet rabbits, it is, but using fake arguments discredits that, as if there were not a lot of good arguments...

Also the inbreed angle isn't as dire in rabbits as many think.

Last edited by Preitler; 05-20-2017 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 05-20-2017, 08:06 PM   #4
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Well, I would seperate them when the doe is 10 weeks (unless the buck starts humping her before that), then wait til she is at least 5-7 months (depending what size they are), breed them, wait until you are sure she's pregnant (can sometimes take the full month, but chances are extremly high when she cooperates and you keep them together for 3 days - if they get along), neuter the buck right away, reintroduce the buck 6 weeks after neutering (can be fertile that long), get rid of the kits with 8-10 weeks (or you'll have to seperate males from females again, and even after 5 years of breeding I still always get a second opinion when sexing the kits).

Anyway, do you already know what to do with the offspring? Be sure of that before breeding. (Just putting them on Craiglist isn't much of a plan). I sell what I can, the rest gets invited to dinner.

You know that breeding isn't always that nice, smooth experience, most time it is (depending on the breed, the line, the rabbits), but you can also end up with a heap of dead rabbits, or anything in between. It would be good to keep contact to the breeder where you have them from to have help if something happens, or for sexing the kits.
I wouldn't breed any rabbits that have genetical issues like pinched hips, teeth problems, fragile health, allergies, etc., that's just adding to the overall problem, many people are poorly prepared for vet bills.

Personally, I also wouldn't breed dwarfs or other breeds with semilethal genes where I can expect that 25% will wither and die, but that's just my preference.

Another point is space - they have one cage, do they still have enough room when you divide it and there are 5-10 more rabbits in there? I hope that's not one of those pet shop cages they sell here for rabbits (more suitable for hamsters or maybe guinea pigs). When I started I made hutches like my grandparents used for their meat rabbits, after a few days it was clear that was cruel and tore them down.

There are good reasons why pet rabbits are neutered, that hormonal behaviour often somewhat collides with what people expect of a pet. Some maturing bucks can be quite messy, spraying 2,3 feet wide and high.
Unspayed does have their issues too, what bothers me most are their mood swings when going through false pregnancys, but all that depends on the characters of the individual rabbits.
But have the buck spayed asap, I still get an oops litter now and then, and with the most recent one I simply can't figure out how they did it. Smarter than me, those critters.

Does your mom have experience with rabbits? That sure would help, and some points I mentioned would be moot. You have still a few months to plan a ahead, in the end, it's solely your decision how you proceed.

After having said all that: It sure is fun to have a litter of baby rabbits, they are so much fun and when handled a lot from the beginning can make very sweet pets. Just always be aware that you can't keep them all. Good luck




Oh, another version. That's not true, or can you link the study showing that? It's contrary to what I see every day. This whole cancer thing gets blown out of proportion and is used as generic argument for everything. Just because numbers keep being repeated over and and over because they fit some peoples agenda doesn't make them any more true.

But true, rabbits do have a higher risk for uterine cancer, I guess about 2-3 times the rate of humans (now, that rate more than doubled in the last 60-70 years), so in my opinion 20-30% will get some growths in their lives, but not necessarily dying of that. That "after 5 years 80% will die" is imho made up nonsense to propagate spaying.
I don't say that spaying is not a good idea for pet rabbits, it is, but using fake arguments discredits that, as if there were not a lot of good arguments...

Also the inbreed angle isn't as dire in rabbits as many think.
Wow, you certainly seem paranoid and poorly educated. Goodluck with that. By the way, I'd suggest going to a library and picking up a book on animal health, since you don't trust anyone else word but your own. Cheers mate.
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Old 05-20-2017, 09:17 PM   #5
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Separate them now. The female is too young to bear kits - she could die giving birth and if she didn't, she wouldn't be mature enough to take care of the kits and chances are she would kill them. Even though does killing their first litter is really not that rare anyway. Why does your mother want kits? The doe certainly doesn't need them (a doe spends less than 5mn a day with her kits and will dismember them if she feels stressed or threatened - the 'desire' to be a mother is completely imaginary when it comes to rabbits) and it's a non negligible risk to her health. That's my personal opinion, but I don't think people not doing it seriously should breed - by seriously, I mean picking a particular breed and exemplary subjects of that breed coming from a serious breeder to do it. If you don't better the breed, you shouldn't breed at all. There is no animal that's in need of more mutts, especially if the rabbits you have come from a petshop (don't know if that's the case, but if it is, those genes really don't need to be duplicated).
Still, before going through with it, I suggest you and your mum read a bit about the subject - both about why breeding is not always a good idea and about the risks for Snowball (it's not just an anti-breeding propaganda, we had a member whose doe died after giving birth quite recently and it happens regularly - do you want to risk the life of your rabbit just to have some cute babies that you'll have to give up after a few weeks anyway?).
http://rabbit.org/category/breeding/
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Old 05-22-2017, 01:56 PM   #6
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I agree that breeding just to get babies is not a good idea. You need to do research on what to expect, and have a plan on how to get rid of the kits. If you still decide to breed them, I would discourage you from doing it if the two rabbits are siblings. That being said, keep them apart until the doe is 5-6 months old (assuming they are a small breed). We've been breeding and showing rabbits for 9 years and we have only lost one doe during kindling. Yes, it can happen but if you breed responsibly it doesn't happen very often. Once in a while I've heard of does eating kits but we've never had that happen either.
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Old Yesterday, 02:00 AM   #7
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I think the 80% getting cancer thing comes from something I said- anecdotally from a veterinarian (so no actual study, just about 25+ years in practice with rabbits) she believes about 80% of rabbits that are spayed after 5 have EITHER uterine/ovarian tumors (deadly) or uterine cysts (more common, SUPER painful, not deadly), but I am also very pro-spay and neuter, so this does fit my agenda of not having any more animals in shelters. I'd be happy to try to find some studies (they would probably be retrospective) if you all would like. That being said, if an owner doesn't plan to breed, I still say spay/neuter to reduce those risks plus the horrid hormonal behaviors.


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