Nearing Wits End.... Need Help!

Okay.. I have read all the info on trainingbunnies for the litter box. Obviously, my bunnies have NOT. These arethe same two we found and took in just recently and though they areobviously tame, they have no clue what a litter box is. (BTW...Fumper's name was changed to Tramp.) I have tried a couple of differentset ups to try and help eliminate the problem of mess but so far nonewants to work.

To give you an idea... the first night they were in a folding "petmate"dog cage. It's about 2 feet high, 3 feet long and 2 feet wide so it'splenty big for them both to use as a cage, plus the door on it is niceand big so it saves me some effort when I have to get them out forcleaning. We have gone to look at the local PetsMart and Petco but itseems all they have for rabbits is geared toward only one rabbit.Seeing as how these two get along so well I would prefer to keep themtogether. Anyhow.... I tried building a bottom to the cage with a thinlayer of carpeting for comfort (nothing they could chew up and ingestthough) but it was completely soiled within a day and wasn't muchbetter at absorbing wet mess than just a solid bottom was. Last night Icleaned the bunnies (no, they didn't like it but they were covered inpee so I didn't have much choice) and tried a new set up in hopes itwould convince then to use the potty box, no luck. Well... today Ibroke down and built a wire bottom for them so that their mess could atleast drop down and they wouldn't be standing in it and therebyflinging it all over the walls! Hopefully this works for now but Ireally don't like the idea of keeping them on wire bottoms at all (eventhough I have a cardboard box and a towel in there to protect theirlittle feet). Any suggestions about where I can get a cage big enoughfor two rabbits without spending over $200?? Needless to say this wasnot an investment we had been planning on and don't really have thatkind of money atm for them. I just know I am pretty desparate rightnow.. I have pee spread from one end of the room to the other and upprobably a good foot or two high on the walls. There's gotta be abetter way! All suggestions are welcome. Thanks!

I keep most of our indoor rabbits in dog crates,which I buy very inexpensively at flea markets and yardsales. I construct a simple wooden frame of 1" x 3" scraplumber to suspend above the tray of the dog crate with hardware hooksor small lengths of appropriately sized chain. This frame, inturn, is covered with 1/2" x 1/2" vinyl covered hardware cloth wire tofunction as a floor, allowing all but the largestof breeds' fecal pellets to pass through to the newspaper lined traybelow. It works quite admirably with our rabbits of sevenpounds and over. In addition, the 1/2" squares of the wirehardware cloth have presented no problems for delicate bunny tootsiesfor our nine rabbits overs ten years, now.

I have divided larger dog crates vertically with a divider wire panelto hold two rabbits side by side when introducing them together in aneffort to affect a bonding; and divided them horizontally toconstruct a two story "condo" with two "floors," each capableof holding a bonded couple.

The beauty of dog crates, in addition to be inexpensive used, is thatthey all have at least one door, AND the top is capable of being openedin order to facilitate cleaning. I usually crimp one side ofthe top's "J-Hooks" closed so they function as a hinge on thatside. Attach casters or furniture dollies to the bottom, likemine, and they become very mobile, another aid to cleaning the flooraround the cage. They are, to me, the best rabbithabitat for very little money, better than much more expensive rabbitspecific "homes" that are difficult to live with and not as userfriendly.

If the rabbits are new to you, or very young, it may take a while forthem to get used to the litter box idea. While in the dogcrate, they should "choose" one corner, or area where they willpredominantly urinate. If you line the tray below with paper,remove some urine soaked paper, place it in a litter box, cover it withlitter, and place the litter box in the same place that they have"chosen" to use as a toilet. Add some poops, as well, to givethem the idea what it is for, but don't necessarily expect them todeposit all their fecal matter there. Some will, mostwon't. Consider yourself lucky if they catch on to peeing inthe litter box.

If they seem to "move" their favorite spot, move the litter box rightalong with them, or place two or more litter boxes in the appropriateplaces if they have chosen more than one. Be persistent, butbe patient, too. Some take longer than others to learn,especially young buns, or buns in a new environment where they are allnervous and wary.

They will learn. By their verynature they are veryfastidious, and in the wild, will only excrete waste matter in certainlocations designated for that purpose in their borrows ortopside, in their warren area. They only deviate from thoseplaces in matters of territorial marking, sexual dominance issues, fearor excitement.

If they are young buns, be aware you might have fighting breaking outas they approach puberty and/or sexual activity with pregnanciesdeveloping. Most rabbit fanciers recommend neutering of bothsexes if you are not going to breed them in the interests of betterhealth, longevity, and behavior.

Buck

Thanks for the info... will help quite a bit. Yourset up actually sounds very similar to my final one. They are in thedog kennel and I built a suspended wire floor for them (also out of1/2" hardware cloth) with a flat board under kennel that can be pulledout and replaced. Will get some newspaper under there tonight to helpwith soaking up spots. They seem to be adjusting quite well to it sofar and are much cleaner now than that have been since we got them!

As for their sex... we have definitely determined that Pigeon is afemale and Tramp (as he is now called) is a male. However, oninspection of Tramp I feel pretty confident in saying he has probablyalready been fixed. Of course, I have no idea how old either of themis. They will still be going to a vet as soon as we get the money totake them though for a general check up and to make sure my theoryabout Tramp is correct before I find out the "hard" way.

Finally... I believe in talking it over that my husband and I havedecided to keep them. We do have 3 dogs also, but we have a quite areaof the house where the bunnies can be separated from them and stillhave plenty of room to roam. Besides.... all of these dogs have beenexposed to ferrets and we never had an incident so I think we'll beokay. (Yes, I know... they will still be kept separated at all timesjust in case.) Thanks for all the help Buck and I'll see about gettingpictures of the new bunnies up for you all as soon as I can get sometaken and developed!

Cheryl

Hi Pigeon and Tramp,

I have little to add after what Buck wrote, but did think of a couple of things.

Since your bunnies are new to this environment, it's best to confinethem to one room at first. This will keep them from being overwhelmed,and will give them a chance to get used to where the litterbox is andits surroundings. Let them get used to the smells, and scoop up thepoop when they miss the litterbox and put it into the litterbox. Thiswill clue them in as to where they should go.

Don't scold or yell at the rabbits when they misbehave, rather, usepositive reinforcement. (Scolding/yelling at them will only stress andscare them.) Cheer the rabbit on when it goes into the litter box. Inthe beginning, give them a treat after they've done it without beingasked, if you like, but they will definitely enjoy your praises andcheers in place of that as well.

At first, the litterbox seemed to be too small for Tucker to focus on,so I pulled the drop pan from his cage and put it in the room whereTucker would most go to the bathroom. After a few days, and positivereinforcement, I put the drop pan back back where it belonged and putthe litterbox in it's place. It's worked out well.

I find litterbox training happens in steps. I'd start there. Keep us posted.

You're doing a tremendous job. We'll do our best to keep you from losing your wits.

-Carolyn

Let me add, though, if Tramp is fixed, and theyare cohabiting now, you may already have a bonded pair who are capableof remaining that way for the rest of their lives. Somepeople work very hard to accomplish those ends and not alwaysuccessfully, I might add. We have one bonded pair left, oftwo, as one of our bucks died very recently, leaving a"widow." Bonded rabbits are a joy to watch andbehold at times.

If Tramp's testicles appear shriveled and withered, he may very well beneutered. If Pigeon is a spayed female, she would most likelyhave a visible scar running vertically upon her belly justabove her genital area.

Unbred, unspayed females invariably succumb to uterine cancer afterseveral years, so it is wise to have her spayed if she hasn'tbeen. It is advisable to do so after the age of six months orso, but certainly before the age of two, three maybe. Unbredbucks are often likely to develop testicular cancer if notcastrated. Both sexes benefit from the reduction in hormonalactivity that generates a lot of territorial aggression and sexualinduced behavior like spraying. All our pet buns have beenfixed.

You may already have a loving couple. What a great Easterpresent that would make for you, and for them, to find a loving home!

Buck

Hi all, I am new to this site and have twobunnies, a lop and I am not sure what the other one is. I am having areally hard time determining the sex of my bunnies. My lop is almost ayear and the other is just a teeny little baby, just got it three daysago. If you have any help in the way of determining sex I wouldappreciate it. Would rather find out now and not when I have some babybunnies on my hands!

Hi,

Welcome! Happy to see you here. Link tohttp://www.debmark.com/rabbits/sexing.htmforsome of the best information and pictures regarding sexing rabbits thatis to be found anywhere.

You are to be commended for your very wise and prudent attitude.

Buck

Thank you so much, I am pretty sure that my lop"Fergi" is a female, but lately she has started marking things with herchin. I was under the impression only male bunnies do this? Also, onemore question. How old should my baby bunny be before I start tointroduce veggies?

Welcome Fergi!

One of our members, Pamnock, describes sexing a rabbit as if it lookslike a taco shape, it's a girl; if it looks like a donut shape, it's aboy.

You're correct that males tend to chin things more than females, but females do do it as well.

Glad to have you amongst us.

-Carolyn

P.S. American's tend to stick to rabbit pellets and fresh timothy hayand water as a rabbit's main diet. We believe that the rabbit pelletsprovide all the nutrients and vitamins that a rabbit needs, and theTimothy Hay is added fiber to help the digestive system work throughfurballs and remain clean and healthy. You'll find that we'll adviseagainst fruits and vegetables as they have a high content of sugarwhich can reek havoc on a rabbits system.

Europeans tend to believe that a rabbit diet of pellets supported by fruits/vegetables is best.

I wouldn't give a baby rabbit fruits/vegetables before the age of 4-5months, and even then at a minimum because too many can cause softstools, and I don't think you want to go there.

Thanks so much. I have found this sitemost helpful in my quest to further my knowledge of bunnies. Hope toget to spend more time here in the future. Thanks for all your help andinformation. Fergi is rubbing everything lately. Especially myslippers. Is this a sign that I belong to her? Or that my slippersdo?LOL

Hi Fergi,

I edited my post because I saw that you added to yours, so I put a P.S. on about the vegetables.

Fergie is claiming her turf. She's rubbing your slippers because your hers.

-Carolyn

Awww!! I feel so special now. Me and Fergi juststarted to bond recently. I am so happy that she likes her human.Thanks again about the veggies. Maybe I will just not feed the babyveggies ever. I would feel badly about taking away Fergi's though. Sheis used to getting Romane, broccoli, carrots, parsley, and a littlechunk of strawberry for a treat. I have not noticed any loose stools soI guess she is ok with the amounts she gets. She very much looksforward to her veggies in the morning and at bed. I have so many morequestions for you all but will stop here for tonight. Gotta let othershave their turn to!

Thanks again for all of your help

Fergi'sand baby bunny's mom

p.s. We haven't thought of a name yet for the baby bunny so that is whyshe is just baby bunny for now. In my home animals have to earn theirnames! So please excuse my refrences to baby bunny for the time being

*laughs*

I thought Fergi Was the baby bunny. I'm sure you'll pick a great name. I love Fergi's name.

I wouldn't completely stop her on the veggies if she's had them, butI'd definitely limit them to two or three times a week as to everymorning.

What a spoiled little Princess we have here, ey? :dude: I know she's acon because she gets so excited about her vegetables, but children getexcited about chocolate cake. Doesn't mean they can have it every day.Don't let her guilt trip you.

-Carolyn