genetics problem.

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dixonsrabbitry

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Ok I sold some standard chins to a few peopleover the last couple of years. An older gentlemen by the name of oliverflynn(some may know of him because of his cinamons), and of courseanother lady bought some from someone else that were bred directly downfrom mine on both the buck and does sides. Oliver bought a couple ofnice does from me, and has had them ever since. He out bred to anotherstandard chinchilla line thats not related to mine(or could besemi-related many generations back through sherman heely's stock). Okabout 5-6 years ago I used a cal to breed into my chins for bettercolor and type. I bred, and bred, and bred those rabbits down from thatline, and have never ever gotten a white one.I ven crossedthem into a second line i was working at the time, and then bred back.However, oliver got a doe that was not related to anything bred downfrom the cal crossing. He's bred her tot he same buck over the past twoyears, and her last litter, she threw 4 whites, and 2 SC's. Not onlydid this doe throw white babies, but so did another bred down from afew generations from that breeding. Neither doe or buck has ever thrownthem before. I talked to oliver at show today about it, and that thefirst time I was aware that my rabbits might be carrying a white gene?He did say that a few other chin breeders in illinios were having thesame problems with the breed throwing white rabbits.

The other lady has two does that are bred down from mine. These arevery distant decendants of the cal crossing. She purchased another SCbuck thats related to mine(like a distant cousin, but the same rabbitson part of the dads pedigree), and bred him to her does. One doe threwall chins. The other doe threw 2 whites, and 4 chins. Now we've figuredout where her whites couldve came from. We figure someone in thatbunny's background bred in a florida white for body type improvement.So the white genes mightve come from the cal and the florida right??

Also a judge unknowlingly tossed up another suggestion today(he didntknow about the whites showing up in the chins). He said that most ofthe chins in the area are related at piont or another to Shermanhelly's(sp?) stock. Sherman was very well know for the breed, and bredsome of the best that have ever hit the tables. i was wondering if thatmight have something to do with it too?

Also most of the chins in the area right now are pretty much related.theres myselfand two other breeders in the tri-state area that all havestock thats related to each other. And most can be traced back into theberger,bowman, and cook lines. but mostly berger at the moment.

You would think that I would start having white babies pooping up right and left by now. But ive never even had one turn up!

Anyone have their 2 cents to add to this?

 
[align=left]Because the himi and REW genes arerecessive, it is very understandable how this can happen. The chins cancarry those recessive genes for generations until they are bred toanother one that also carries the recessive gene. It takes one fromeach parent to make a himi (californian) or REW. This is the mainreason it is not recommended to cross in another breed to an alreadyestablished breed. You can be bringing in unwanted genes that can hauntyour breeding program for many, many years. This is what seems to behappening with these chins.[/align]
[align=left]Suzy[/align]
 
That is undertandable. Unfortunatley everyone isbeing pretty much beingforced to crossbreed at one piont oranother. :( Mostly because good breeding stock is either hard to find,or is just not there. There's only about a handful of SC breeders leftin the us. And the gene pool is pretty limitted. They are established,yet a very endangered breed. Sad to say that I know of people that areheavily crossing in florida whites, silver martins, cals, and who knowswhat else into their lines to help save or improve the breed. I knowtex thomas's chin that won at arba nationals last year was in fact halfsilver martin.

I was just surprised to have some turn up out of the line that I didntcross breed to. You would think I'd start getting whites by now if theyall carried that gene.
 
dixonsrabbitry wrote:
I was just surprised to have some turn up out of the line that I didntcross breed to. You would think I'd start getting whites by now if theyall carried that gene.


They don't all carry the gene, that's why you are not seeing whites inyour litters. If a non-carrier is bred to acarrier, 50% of the litter will be carriers. Ifthese are bred to non-carriers, once again, the gene will be passed on,but you won't actually get any whites, especially if you are notusingactual whites in your breeding program. If youbreed two white carriers together, there is only a 25% chance of whitesbeing produced in the litters. If you don't happen to bekeeping many of those actually carrying the gene, it is less likelythat whites would be showing up.

If you had a very large herd, and were extensivley line or inbreeding,it's very likely that thegene would pop up more frequently.

Pam
 
I did have a large herd and used mostly bucksthat I had bred down myself as herd sire. I line bred them prettyheavy. Most that I bred were hlaf brother/half sister, cousins, uncles,mother to son, and father to daughter breedings. But most were closerrelated then that. But I still never saw any pure white bunnies. I'dget an accasional white toenail, or a white spot. But no purewhites.The funny thing is that the other two breeders out bred to twoother chins that they thought were purebred. I know the one buckprobably isnt related to mine unless its way off the pedigree. But thebuck the other person owns is related through my main herd sire. he andthe other rabbit share a grandfather, and grandmother. its just weirdthat im not really seeing it, but eveyone else is. Before the citythingI had around 30 breeding chins. All closely related.

When i first started with them, however i did get alot of black selfs that looked almost like a havana.
 
Dixons ? Have yousold any of yourStabdard Chins in NH , Iam curious becausesomeone dumped one atone of the Pet Stores I dealwith , She is a beautiful girlwith a wonderfull kid friendly temperment, She adores myoldest Grandaughter . Justcurious and a little more thaninterested , I would love toknow where she came fromand any back ground infoi can get on her .

IM000175.jpg

 
Nope. Only in michigan/ohio/ and indiana. I dontreally deal with, or sell buns to petstores. :) do you have anotherpicture that isnt color blotched? She almost looks like she could bepart satin chin, or silver martin.could be the coloring of the photomaking her look that way.Does she have an ear number? How bigis she? SC's aren't supposed to be over 7.5 pounds.
 
NO but Ican get a better picture of her, Sadley no ear number, Right now I am trying to get herto weight poor thing is sadlyunder 6 pounds , very boney,

I didnt buy her from a petstore they called me because shewas just dumped off , careless ownerdidnt want her anymore she was too big ,I figure as did hervet she is between 5 and 7 months old ,When i brought her in she weighedjust over 4 pounds verymalnourished , i have goten herup to nearly 6 poundsnow thanks to nutrical and alfalfa/timothy based pellets and topquality hays, and the odd treats ,

The picture i posted was whenshe had first got settled in, maybe a month and a half ago Iwould have to relook at thedates to be sure. Iwill try and get a betterpicture of her in a little bit.
Finally found when Igot her in it was May 1stlol geesh i am scatterbrained , I had togo into PM to findout forgot to mark the calander ,
 
If shes still boney at six pounds, she could bea satin chin or an american chin. The average weight for an adult SC isabout 6 pounds.

I hate people that dump their animals because they get too big. I betthey got it from a petstore that was selling *dwarfs.* I bet theyeither fed her crappy kaytee food, or just got tired of feeding her.Ugh.
 
I really wish Iknew what they fedher but she is nowgaining up some weightwhich makes me feel better ,she really digs into her bowllike she isnt going to eat again, so with theway she attacks herfood I am going to say shewas more underfed than fedcrappy food , or a good mixtureof both . I am willing to bethad she been shaved you wouldhave been able to count everylittle rib in her body , that first week, heres a picture of her facethis gives you an idea what shelooked like then , I ill get ouside picstomorrow the lighting in the garageis terrible turns everybun either eerie green orblue .

IM000177.jpg


Thankfully she doesnt look likethat now , her cheeks havefilled out a bit , andis morerounded faced.
 
this is thebest I could get tonight ,it does show herlength a bit her cage is 2 fttall and she is actually tallerthan the cage at full streatch ?

now.jpg


I tried for a goodshot but sheisdifficult to photograph hercolor washes and blotches.
 
Thanks !its been kinda wasyto get her gained up some , shesure was a hungery little girl but sheis coming along nicely , atkeast now that she is gettinggood feed and plentyof water she is rounding outnicely , she goes back in fora recheck nextweek I can get a moreaccurate weight on her then .
 

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