Rabbit of the Month - Sophie

Rabbits Online > Pet Rabbit Discussion > Health & Wellness > Sick Bunny, scabs, swollen genitals? Don't know what's wrong :( Help please




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-16-2010, 10:10 PM   #1
Snowballbun
 
Snowballbun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: , Michigan, USA
Posts: 144
Post

Hello all,

I have been having problems with my bunny and I am really worried.

1. Vet trip one : One trip to the vet was that her eye was red and she kept closing it and it was running with clear discharge. The vet prescribed neo poly gram eyedrops and Baytril in case it would spread to an upper respiratory infection.

2. I came back 4 days later and her eye was not any better, so I took her to Vet trip # 2. The vet said she thinks because the meds weren't working that it might be something environmental, like an allergy. So, I took out the pine bedding and litter and am now using cell sorb litter. This worked for her eye. Her eye got better in 3-4 days, but she still kept sneezing.

3. Trip # 3, I take bun bun to the vet because she keeps sneezing a ton! 10 times in a row, several times when I am in the room (and I am not even home all day). Also, she has little scabby things on her lip, right under her nose. The vet examined her private parts and they are red and swollen with the same scabby type thing on her vaginal area. Also, there was thick fluid that came out which she took a culture of. She looked under the microscope and it turns out it was thick urine with a lot of calcium.
So, the vet wanted me to change her diet with less calcium. 1/8 a cup of pellets for a 2 1/2 pound 4 month old bunny. (She's a dwarf hotot) and to feed more veggies, and switch from alfalfa to Timothy Hay. So on Saturday, the same day when I took her, I gave her Timothy Hay. I am trying to switch her pellets because I bought bulk, but now am trying to transfer to pure timothy pellets. I thought baby buns were supposed to have unlimited pellets? I haven't really reduced the amount yet, but the veggies she seems to pick over the pellets. Also, she doesn't seem to like the Timothy Hay as much so I don't know what to do. The Vet said she would talk to another rabbit person to see about the scabs, if she transferred from her mouth to her parts or vice versa. Also, she gave her a medicated shampoo for the scabs called Hexadine, by Virbac.

So does anyone have any idea about any of this or advice and help. This is my first rabbit and I have had so many issues already. My rabbit is also getting cranky, like grunting at me and boxing. I realize this could be hormones, but she is usually not like that, she's very sweet and I think it might be because she's in pain. Please help!



__________________
Snowballbun is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 11:19 PM   #2
tonyshuman
 
tonyshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Durham, NC, USA
Posts: 10,371
Liked 94 Times on 84 Posts
Likes Given: 23

Post

It sounds like she may have syphilis. Has your vet mentioned that? Is the vet one of the ones recommended on this website?

It seems strange to me that the vet has given up on antibiotics after only trying Baytril. Many rabbit bacteria are resistant to Baytril, and there are many other antibiotics out there that will work better. Did you discuss any other possible antibiotics?

The reason I say syphilis is that it's common in rabbits, they can carry it without showing symptoms and have a flare-up, and it often strikes the eye area and vaginal area with crusty, scabby lesions.

I am not sure what's going on with the urine looking like sludge. She's too young to be worrying much about the pellets. It's possible that a crusty obstruction of the urethra, caused by the syphilis, led to a bladder infection as well.

I guess what I want to say is that I'm not very confident in this vet, based on her treatment protocol. Check to see if she's in the rabbit-savvy vet listings we've compiled here.

I am not a vet, but upon seeing the Baytril not work, I would have switched to a different antibiotic, not given up on antibiotics totally. With the scabs on the vaginal area and mouth, the first thing I would think is syphilis. Her treatment protocol just doesn't make sense to me.



__________________
tonyshuman is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 11:26 PM   #3
Snowballbun
 
Snowballbun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: , Michigan, USA
Posts: 144
Post

This particular vet is not listed, but it is the same place that is on the house rabbit society's website, but a different vet than was listed. She said she didn't want to necessarily give it a different antibiotic because she didn't want to "wipe" its gut out with good bacteria. The first vet visit was to a doctor who was on the website and then the second two times was with another vet who treats rabbits because the first one is always so booked. I am also getting the feeling that this vet does not know what she is talking about....There are things I've read that she does not even know about. I have read a lot about probiotics and I mentioned this to her but she said she hasn't heard of any for rabbits?

So you don't think this has anything to do with allergies, and is syphillis treatable or deadly? Should I get her to another vet asap?

__________________
Snowballbun is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 11:37 PM   #4
tonyshuman
 
tonyshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Durham, NC, USA
Posts: 10,371
Liked 94 Times on 84 Posts
Likes Given: 23

Post

Well, there are other antibiotics than Baytril that can be given to rabbits without wiping out their GI bacteria. There are also two probiotics that are great for bunnies: Bene-Bac (found in pet stores) and Probios (found in farm stores). Things like acidophilus capsules can also be used for bunnies.

The treatment for syphillis is injectible penicillin. It's a fairly simple treatment, although many vets don't know that rabbits can tolerate penicillin. They cannot have it orally, but when injected it is fine. It can be pretty bad. I would get her to a vet soon, as syphilis can cause swelling down there, leading to problems passing urine or feces. I know naturestee had a baby bunny with syphilis that had lots of pain while pooing.

I would get a different vet if possible. This one just doesn't seem up-to-date.

__________________
tonyshuman is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 01:30 AM   #5
pamnock
Retired Moderator
 
pamnock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: , Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 12,837
Liked 42 Times on 34 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Post

I would advise treating as though it were syphilis. Here's an interesting article . . .

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Bacterial/Syphilis.htm

__________________

Pam

nockrabbits.com

pamnock is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 12:07 AM   #6
Snowballbun
 
Snowballbun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: , Michigan, USA
Posts: 144
Post

Here's the update:
I took my bun bun to a different vet to get another opinion. This vet said it could possibly be different things but that blood tests may not be accurate because they could show that the rabbit is a carrier and not necessarily infected. He said she has some symptoms of e cuniculi, pasteurella, and syphilis. The other doc thought it wasn't an upper respiratory.

So they did an examination and an x-ray to make sure she did not have any sludge and the x-ray was fine. So he prescribed:
1. baytril oral antibiotics .40 ml twice a day(I believe higher than her other round of baytril),

2. Meloxicam .24 ml twice a day which is an anti-inflammatory in case she is in pain (since her genitals are swollen) and the scabbies on her face. She has also been moody and grunting and boxing me a lot lately when I try to pick her up which makes me think she might be in pain. (Also I don't think she likes all these meds!)

3. She also has Avix soother plus cream to put on her face and genitals twice a day.

4. And a probiotic Benebac every 24 hours. 1/8 inch of paste. YAY This vet knew about probiotics for rabbits and I've heard you guys mention it several times, and I get a lot of my information from all of you

Ok, so this was last week that I took her in and then I came home today and her eye was runny again! She had the runny eye a little over a month ago which was when the vet prescribed baytril and neo poly gram eye drops. I don't know why her runny eye is coming back! It seems like it's turning dark pink again too. We had gotten rid of the pine bedding which seemed to help the eye, but if it was the bedding then I don't see how it would have come back a month later.

Also, during all of this she has been sneezing a lot as well. I know you guys said syphilis, and I did read about it and it said that syphilis can cause sneezing as well. The vet said that if the scabbies got worse, then they would try penicillin shots. But....her meds seem to be working as her scabs seem to be healing and her parts are not as inflamed as before. So I am totally stumped!! I'm waiting for a call back from the vet about the eye part. My poor baby bun bun, I've been sick worrying about her. Not to mention all the money it's costing as well.

She seems to be not sneezing as much, but is still sneezing.
Any ideas?? I appreciate your answers so much.

__________________
Snowballbun is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 03:55 AM   #7
tonyshuman
 
tonyshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Durham, NC, USA
Posts: 10,371
Liked 94 Times on 84 Posts
Likes Given: 23

Post

Okey dokey. A few things. The meloxicam is good, and we've looked into that cream before and it seems ok. The probiotic is great.

I am not sure that the Baytril will help. Pasturella is a bacterium that causes upper respiratory infections, but it could also be causing a skin infection in this case, which is I think what the vet is doing. It's not going to treat syphillis, however. The penicillin shots would do that.

I think it's hard to tell if she's getting better because of the Baytril or because of the salve. It may be best to just go with the penicillin.

__________________
tonyshuman is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 06:37 PM   #8
devilishblueyes
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lawrence, Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 14
Post

pamnock wrote:
Quote:
I would advise treating as though it were syphilis. Here's an interesting article . . .

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Bacterial/Syphilis.htm
The symptoms you mentioned do fit syphillis very well according to the article. What the one vet told you about wiping out the good bacteria is true. Rabbits have "good bacteria" and "bad bacteria". Good bacteria can help aid in digestion and the uptake of nutrients in the digestive system. Bad bacteria can make your rabbit sick. Pennicillin G which the article says is the only cure is a VERY strong antibiotic. It basically will kill all the good and bad bacteria in your rabbit. Normally after treating a rabbit with Pennicillin G the rabbit should be fed some yogurt to help promote the growth of good bacteria again.
__________________
devilishblueyes is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 06:45 PM   #9
Pipp
Administrator
RABBIT_ADMIN.png
 
Pipp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 14,557
Liked 20 Times on 16 Posts
Likes Given: 53

Post

devilishblueyes wrote:
Quote:
Normally after treating a rabbit with Pennicillin G the rabbit should be fed some yogurt to help promote the growth of good bacteria again.
Yogurt is pretty old school. I don't think it's as bad as many make it out to be, but some bunnies are lactose intolerant, I believe especially as they age, and more importantly yogurt contains a lot of natural sugars which will feed the bad bacteria.

Thus a safer bet is a probiotic like acidophilus (found in human stores) or bene-bac (at farm and pet stores).


sas
__________________
Pipp is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2010, 08:36 PM   #10
tonyshuman
 
tonyshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Durham, NC, USA
Posts: 10,371
Liked 94 Times on 84 Posts
Likes Given: 23

Post

devilishblueyes wrote:
Quote:
pamnock wrote:
Quote:
I would advise treating as though it were syphilis. Here's an interesting article . . .

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Bacterial/Syphilis.htm
The symptoms you mentioned do fit syphillis very well according to the article. What the one vet told you about wiping out the good bacteria is true. Rabbits have "good bacteria" and "bad bacteria". Good bacteria can help aid in digestion and the uptake of nutrients in the digestive system. Bad bacteria can make your rabbit sick. Pennicillin G which the article says is the only cure is a VERY strong antibiotic. It basically will kill all the good and bad bacteria in your rabbit. Normally after treating a rabbit with Pennicillin G the rabbit should be fed some yogurt to help promote the growth of good bacteria again.
In fact, penicillin will only destroy the good bacteria in the GI tract if given orally. Typically, to treat syphilis, it is given via subcutaneous injection. Thus it doesn't get to the GI tract in large quantities and the good bacteria there are safe. Although we do recommend having a bunny on probiotics while on any kind of antibiotic therapy, it's not absolutely necessary, and we never recommend yogurt as a probiotic. The lactose and other sugars in yogurt are hard on a rabbit's stomach and promote the growth of bad bacteria, leading to cecal dysbiosis, like what Pipp said.

To recap, penicillin is safe if given via injection, not orally. Probiotics are good for bunnies to take while on an antibiotic therapy, but yogurt is not recommended as a probiotic. We recommend Bene-Bac and Probios, which contain probiotics to promote the growth of the beneficial bacteria in the GI tract.

Devilishblueyes, the information you're quoting is widely spread, but unfortunately a bit out of date. Over the last 20 years, rabbit medicine has changed drastically and many vets, books, and websites have not kept up with the changes. Some of the biggest recent changes in rabbit medicine have been the recognition that -cillin antibiotics are safe to give to rabbits via a non-oral route, and that cow's milk products upset the balance of beneficial bacteria in a rabbit's GI tract.


__________________
tonyshuman is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On